North American Union (NAU) (credit, homes, to buy)

[cabolissa]

Originally Posted by TylerJAX

This will be the final nail in the coffin for the American working class if it were to happen.

I'm not so sure. I'm envisioning many jobs returning to North America. We've lost so many working class jobs to China recently. Jobs which used to reside here in the US and in Mexico (working class and manufacturing). If we could recoup some of those jobs, our collective economies would benefit, and we may see a decline in the desperate migration across our borders in search of financial stability. After all, a healthy economy in Mexico benefits the US, doesn't it? How does a healthy economy in China benefit us?

1.8 Million jobs lost to China under Bush Administration: http://blog.aflcio.org/2007/05/03/18...o-china-trade/
Report: N.Y. Jobs Lost To China - July 30, 2008 - The New York Sun

[bale002]

Originally Posted by cabolissa

I'm envisioning many jobs returning to North America. We've lost so many working class jobs to China recently ... If we could recoup some of those jobs, our collective economies would benefit ...

Yes, I can envision that too, but my expectation is that the purchasing power of the wages and the real economic value of the pensions and health care benefits (and so on) of future workers in North America will be lower than compared to their counterparts in the 1950s-1990s period and almost certainly lower than the drunken sailor period of the 2000s.

That's not the only possible outcome, but it is the one that I most expect.

[emh]

Interesting topic. I've recently been saying that I think this is a good idea. But after reading Paul Krugman's blog post about the problems in Spain and how they're somewhat handcuffed because of being part of the EU, I'm starting to reconsider:

The pain in Spain … - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

[Fighter 1]

Originally Posted by moving123456

I could see a union with Canada possibly being a good thing, but not Mexico in my opinion.

Are you ready to give up our constitution?? Are you ready to give up you're Social Security??? Are you ready to be arested by Canadan police ??? Answer those questions and you will have the answer to your question "is this a good thing" ?

[Fighter 1]

Originally Posted by Cornerguy1

Perhaps if you're going to discuss a North American Union, you should first outline what exactly that would entail? Hard for people to talk about things if the subject hasn't been defined.

All you need to do is go to the site " NORTH AMERICAN UNION " It is explained very well.

[decafdave]

Originally Posted by Fighter 1

Are you ready to give up our constitution?? Are you ready to give up you're Social Security??? Are you ready to be arested by Canadan police ??? Answer those questions and you will have the answer to your question "is this a good thing" ?

I would love to get rid of social security since I'll never see any of it. Though I don't think that was the point you were trying to make.

Any union we got involved in would only increase the countries descent into the "nanny state".

[bale002]

Originally Posted by Fighter 1

Are you ready to give up our constitution?? Are you ready to give up you're Social Security???

The value of social security is being eroded in any case, whether you like it or not, we are all joining the ranks of the global masses, so start to compare yourself to the average Brazilian, Russian, Indian, Chinese rather than the relatively isolated, protected, aberration-in-history North American or European of the golden age of yesteryear. For as beautiful as the Constitution is, it is not going to save us, and there is no longer a new world to sail to (maybe the "puritans" can colonize a piece of outerspace traveling on Russian space tourism rockets).

Besides, as a matter of universal principle, in the end there is no security in human social ... a distracted, overburdened, unreliable, overpriced, overrated nanny.

[Kracer]

The concept of NAU is a wet dream in some radical's fantasy world.

The thought of Mexico in its current state of upheaval being considered as a viable business partner is too bizzare to contemplate. Maybe if the US annexed Mexico and got rid of the drug cartels Mexico could realize their great potential.

The problem with the US is the absolute inverted natural selection of corporate business leadership that lacks vision and creativity. They are in large part, responsible for the productive
inefficiency that supported moving jobs in, manufacturing through pharmaceutical research, to India, China and Mexico. That along with corporate tax breaks. Thus Puerto Rico became a US pharma manufacturing business haven. Net result; squandered business and financial resources and loss of jobs in the US.

The NAU would be the default position for the overwhelming failure of US business leadership in partner with an inept federal government. If the NAU actually reaches mainstream discussion it will be a dark day.

[RangerDuke08]

Originally Posted by emh

Interesting topic. I've recently been saying that I think this is a good idea. But after reading Paul Krugman's blog post about the problems in Spain and how they're somewhat handcuffed because of being part of the EU, I'm starting to reconsider:

The pain in Spain … - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com

Paul Krugman? Who also proposed borrowing 5 trillion to stimulate the economy and perhaps destroy the dollar? This guy need to have rotten fruit thrown at him along with that Bernanke and Paulson guy who have destroyed our economy.

Ever heard the saying, "There's no free lunch in America"? The million dollar nobel prize awarded to him was a political maneuver to give extra clout to comparative advantage & "Free Trade" in order to sell it to the public, to the politicians, and maybe, worst of all, to academia. "Free" always makes stuff sound better. But is "free" really free? Free Trade, Free Bail Out Money, etc... Read the fine print. The word "free" doesn't mean what it used to. In addition to what it sounds like it's supposed to mean, there have been appended lots of caveats. Inflate the economy and prices will go up but won't relatively change in the long run. In this special scenario, low wage jobs will be created in the short run but everyone will be taxed additionally to pay for the inflation, making everyone relatively poorer. Getting taxed for creating inflation - outrageous.

The American government is already having a hard time taking care of the interests of it people (2 million jobs lost, 12 million illegals, poor system f health care, etc). Why extend it's hand? Oh so the global imperalists can make more money. There is a reason NAFTA failed, only making the rich richer and the poor poorer, a natural cause for the flow of illegal migration from South to North. The NAU would be an extension of NAFTA. Think twice before you buy into this "Free Lunch" idea, as the next thing you know you may lose your lunchbox. Unfortunately we may already be too late for that. The SPP proposes a "North American Community" by 2010. That timeline may not become a reality, but more importantly the government knows the general public is not for this idea, I believe a recent survey stated 60% of American are against it. If the dollar further inflates and American involvement in the middle-east escalates (ie., Pakistan), we may be forced on our knees to adopt a NAU sometime in Obama's 2nd term. A 51/49 Democracy is not hard these days to turn the tide from 49/51 to 51/49 in favor of government.

ABC News: Nobel Prize Winner's Recession Solution
http://www.cfr.org/content/publicati...a_TF_final.pdf

[cabolissa]

Interesting discussion. Thanks everyone!