North American Union (NAU) (rent, crime, home)

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by skrazzle

LOL USA almost bankrupt? Our debt is not higher then our GDP. In the Great Depression it WAS higher then the GDP, and we paid it off.

We have had much worse.... the economy is definitely bad, the worst since the Great Depression... but it's not the end of the line for us....

And WHY not Mexico? Let's see... their government is crooked, their police are crooked.. it's not a country on the level with the US... it would not be in our best interest.

And on that note, i'd certainly HOPE there is no NAU.... I don't expect the EU to last... and countries should not lose themselves in the name of economic expansion...

I agree with some things that you said, like that the USA will come out of this, it'll be tough a lot of people will suffer but there will be a recovery, but those remarks about Mexico being crooked, sound like if the USA was perfect and an example to the world in purity, which is not.

I mean why the wars, the illegal immigration and the economic crisis? this happened because the US government is crooked, maybe the police is not as crooked but the government and coorporate America are very corrupt.

Now, Mexico is a great country the USA is a great country too, they aren't on the same level? what do you mean by this? economically, socially, culturally, historically? it could be very things but I agree, they are different countries, lifestyles, etc, but that doesn't mean a country is better, it depends on what you want from life.

I do believe in world unity though, but maybe because of my job i travel and make friends around the globe, but it has to be something that is not forced, but desired.

Now to our friend from Brazil: I lived in your country for 2 years and it is a great country amigo, both Brazil in Mexico have a lot in common, socially, culturally, economically, I believe it would be much better to have an union between Mexico and Brazil, but unfortunately the mexican presidents put too much attention to the USA and they haven't thought on that option.

Regards!

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by BRAZILIAN

Why not Mexico?? Why USA and Canada will be better than Mexico??
Why you discriminate against Mexico?? Don't you know USA is (almost)bankrupt??
I think this "union" don't will be good to Mexico.
P.S.: I am not Mexican

Mexico has HUGE problems at this point in time, and are on the verge of collapse. The Peso is well... not strong in any sense of the word. Both Canada and the U.S. have very close matching exchange rates which would make this kine of a union more plausible, but not with the current problems in Mexico and the very low value of the money there.

[b-raaad]

Then President of Mexico Vicente Fox said in an interview for Commanding Heights: The Battle for the World Economy that in the long term he sought with the United States a "convergence of our two economies, convergence on the basic and fundamental variables of the economy, convergence on rates of interest, convergence on income of people, convergence on salaries." He suggested this might take as long as 20 years to be realized, but the ultimate "convergence" he saw between the United States and Mexico would allow them to "erase that border, open up that border for [the] free flow of products, merchandises, [and] capital as well as people".[


this guy is either high or thinks were stupid or both. he acts like mexico is on the same level of prosperity as the US. There is much to gain for the mexicans and much for americans to lose in this proposition. I could understand between canada and the US it would be close to equal but even then the scale is tiped in the canucks favor and i would debate that as well

convergence of income and salaries??? give me a freaking break, the average american's median income is somehwere in the 45k a year and what is the average median income of mexico's citizens?
same with unemployment, in a recession our 9% looks high but it's nothing compared to mexico's.

are they going to come up to our standard or we are gonna go down to their standard?
i think i know which one is most likely to happen.

[b-raaad]

Originally Posted by Travelling fella

I agree with some things that you said, like that the USA will come out of this, it'll be tough a lot of people will suffer but there will be a recovery, but those remarks about Mexico being crooked, sound like if the USA was perfect and an example to the world in purity, which is not.

I mean why the wars, the illegal immigration and the economic crisis? this happened because the US government is crooked, maybe the police is not as crooked but the government and coorporate America are very corrupt.

Now, Mexico is a great country the USA is a great country too, they aren't on the same level? what do you mean by this? economically, socially, culturally, historically? it could be very things but I agree, they are different countries, lifestyles, etc, but that doesn't mean a country is better, it depends on what you want from life.

I do believe in world unity though, but maybe because of my job i travel and make friends around the globe, but it has to be something that is not forced, but desired.

Now to our friend from Brazil: I lived in your country for 2 years and it is a great country amigo, both Brazil in Mexico have a lot in common, socially, culturally, economically, I believe it would be much better to have an union between Mexico and Brazil, but unfortunately the mexican presidents put too much attention to the USA and they haven't thought on that option.

Regards!

have you been living under a rock or something all your life? The United States is much much MUCH MUCH MUCH more superior than mexico
in every aspect, economy, living conditions, GDP, technology, quality of life, earnings potential, millitary.....this list can go on forever.

ppl from poor countries all over the world fight and sacrifice to come to the UNITED STATES to live, mexicans risk their lives to even live here ILLEGALLY without all the benefits of citizenship. You dont see americans going to mexico illegally or americans quitting their jobs and leaving their families and spending all their savings to move to the philippines, or india, or vietnam, or zimbabwe, or mexico

mexico is a borderline 3rd world country. I think the only reason they are not absolutely a third world country is because of their location and proximity for trade with the united states.

[b-raaad]

Originally Posted by BRAZILIAN

Why not Mexico?? Why USA and Canada will be better than Mexico??
Why you discriminate against Mexico?? Don't you know USA is (almost)bankrupt??
I think this "union" don't will be good to Mexico.
P.S.: I am not Mexican

i like how all these foreigners watch the news and tell us Americans (that actually live in this country) that our country is going bankrupt.

yes we are going through a recession, and it's really getting bad and our unemployment is nearing double digits, the golden years of American are past and things are slowly declining (the NAU will make this happen a lot faster since we will go down to YOUR standards), but compared to mexico? it's like comparing a papercut to a gunshot wound.

even though america is battered and beaten (illegal immigration from mexico helped alot) it can still woop mexico's a ss with one hand tied behind it's back.

[Fighter 1]

Originally Posted by Kracer

The concept of NAU is a wet dream in some radical's fantasy world.

The thought of Mexico in its current state of upheaval being considered as a viable business partner is too bizzare to contemplate. Maybe if the US annexed Mexico and got rid of the drug cartels Mexico could realize their great potential.

The problem with the US is the absolute inverted natural selection of corporate business leadership that lacks vision and creativity. They are in large part, responsible for the productive
inefficiency that supported moving jobs in, manufacturing through pharmaceutical research, to India, China and Mexico. That along with corporate tax breaks. Thus Puerto Rico became a US pharma manufacturing business haven. Net result; squandered business and financial resources and loss of jobs in the US.

The NAU would be the default position for the overwhelming failure of US business leadership in partner with an inept federal government. If the NAU actually reaches mainstream discussion it will be a dark day.

please take off your colored glasses , don't you think it is getting darker! are not the US business leaders failing!are we suposed to wait untill the light is out before we say , WOW ! it's dark here???

[Fighter 1]

Originally Posted by dcashley

The NAU won't ever happen:
1. People in Mexico won't learn the Canadian language.
2. People in Canada won't learn the Creole language.
3. People in the USA won't learn language.

OMG !!!! tell the President ! is it that easy ? WOW! I can relax now that some one has figured it out and sleep good tonight , do you mind if i still sleep with my gun by my side for a while untill this all sinks in ??!!!!!!

[Travelling fella]

Originally Posted by b-raaad

have you been living under a rock or something all your life? The United States is much much MUCH MUCH MUCH more superior than mexico
in every aspect, economy, living conditions, GDP, technology, quality of life, earnings potential, millitary.....this list can go on forever.

Superior in what sense? life is more than economy, gdp or technology and much more than military, life should be fullfilment, those things aren't really important to make the most out of your life, it depends on what you are seeking, that said, really there are no superior countries, just different countries for different tastes.

I live in Mexico, and I lived in the USA, and also in Brazil, let's make an objective analysis.

economy:

USA, credit / debt is used to fuel the biggest consumption economy in the world, used to be a manufacturing powerhouse, until everything was sent overseas, it is now a FIRE economy that after facing a sever economic crisis is on a breaking point.

Wages are high, cost of living is high too, technology is very cheap, credits are awesome compared to the rates of other countries, you can find almost everything from any country, services range from ok to excelent, most could fit on very good.

Mexico, the biggest income of Mexico comes from oil sales, tourism, and the remittances of people who works in the USA, it is now facing a hard time due to the fact that her principal partner is facing one of the worst crisis of her history, it is a middle income country, services range from bad to excellent, with most ranging in average, thanks to the NAFTA and other Free trade agreements, you can find almost everything from any country (although not as much diversity as on the USA but almost) technology is more expensive than in the USA, but not that much compared to the rest of the world, cost of living ranges on the city although it is average.

Brazil, the biggest country of southamerica is a regional power, it's economy is based on oil sales, exports of several manufacturing goods, food exports, and alternative fuels, the country is really big, big enough to have a very strong inner market that is very well protected by stiff tariff's imposed into imports, it has been hit with the crisis due to the fact that most of her partners are in crisis too, but not as hard (so far) as the USA or Mexico which is nearer and more dependent, services range from mediocre to excellent, most would fall in average, technology is veeeery expensive, specially imported things, and diversity is very limited, you can find products from mercosur members, and some other imported things that are veeeery expensive compared to the prices of the USA or Mexico.

living conditions:

USA, has good living conditions, good wages too, too much lavish materialism and consumerism, people is too concerned with material things and live pretty busy lifes.

if you like consumerism and materalism, shopping sprees, big sales, this is your country

Mexico, good living conditions high unequality though, more laidback and relaxed lifestyle, harder to escape poverty without good education/skills, better life quality for the middle class.

if you like a laidback lifestyle yet with the benefits of capitalism and free trade this is your country

Brazil, good living conditions but severe inequality, laidback and relaxed, in the north, stricter in the south, but not as much as the USA, escaping poverty is very hard without good education/skills, middle class life is very good though.

if you like a laidback lifestyle, in small, very clean and organized cities, but without many diversity this is your country

GDP

USA $13,201,820,000,000.00 # 1 in the world
Brazil $1,067,962,000,000.00 # 11 in the world
Mexico $839,181,900,000.00 #15 in the world

Technology

USA
technology is very available and cheap
Mexico
technology is fairly available and reasonably cheap
Brazil
technology is harder to get by and expensive

ppl from poor countries all over the world fight and sacrifice to come to the UNITED STATES to live, mexicans risk their lives to even live here ILLEGALLY without all the benefits of citizenship. You dont see americans going to mexico illegally or americans quitting their jobs and leaving their families and spending all their savings to move to the philippines, or india, or vietnam, or zimbabwe, or mexico

mexico is a borderline 3rd world country. I think the only reason they are not absolutely a third world country is because of their location and proximity for trade with the united states.

Quality of life

This is really subjective, it depends on what do you want, in my case I found the USA too materialistic for my taste, I like living in Mexico and I loved living in Brazil, I'd do it again without even thinking, I like the USA for shopping but I wouldn't live here even if I was paid for it, nothing against America it just isn't my style.

earnings potential

it really depends on what you do, and on what country, but average it'd be the usa, but again is this really important?

millitary

yes the USA has the most powerful army in the world, so what? this army didn't prevent 9/11, it hasn't been able to prevent illegal immigration either, the only good thing that the USA military did was to help during WWII, other than that it has just killed millions in other countries and made a lot of enemies for this.

ppl from poor countries all over the world fight and sacrifice to come to the UNITED STATES to live, mexicans risk their lives to even live here ILLEGALLY without all the benefits of citizenship. You dont see americans going to mexico illegally or americans quitting their jobs and leaving their families and spending all their savings to move to the philippines, or india, or vietnam, or zimbabwe, or mexico

This is not quite true, a lot of people from America does this, and guess what's the country with the biggest number of Americans (legal and illegal) living abroad, yup you guessed right, Mexico.

America attracts a lot of immigrants, because of the higher wages and also because of the freebies, no other country in the world offers the things that the USA offers to the illegals.

mexico is a borderline 3rd world country. I think the only reason they are not absolutely a third world country is because of their location and proximity for trade with the united states.

Have you ever been in Mexico or you are just guessing? do you think you can compare Mexico's living standards with those in China and India? with those from Russia? a lot of countries in western Europe? not really although many people specially in rural areas or who has recently immigrated to big cities are very poor.

Returning to the OP, I guess that people in the 3 north american countries are still very inmature to have a union, we are all biased, prejudiced, and too nationalistic to see the benefits of having such a union.

Right now people is more interested in seeing who lives in the coolest country, or which country beats the others butt, sad but true

[Zephora]

How come Canadians have not reacted on this topic yet? I would like to see what Canadians think about the NAU. I don't really understand how it would work, but the way some Americans are reacting here, it will be a sad day if it really would happen. (Sad for all three countries)

[dcashley]

Originally Posted by Fighter 1

OMG !!!! tell the President ! is it that easy ? WOW! I can relax now that some one has figured it out and sleep good tonight , do you mind if i still sleep with my gun by my side for a while untill this all sinks in ??!!!!!!

My post was supposed to point out the significant differences among the cultures of the three countries. How could a union ever be formed when the political, religious, social, family, educational, and sexual differences are so great?

My conclusion is that the NAU could never work.