Racism in Spain

[El Rhino]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I think part of the problem is that there isn't a history of minorities

Oh, but there is. Remember the lengthy invasion by Islamic Moors from Africa and the Jewish population they didn't quite see eye to eye with? Spain has a history with minorities, just not a very pleasant one.


The monkey chants at soccer games like the OP mentioned is originally an English thing, I think.

[internat]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

The stereotype of Spain is that they are short and dark (or Mexican-like) or something....but when I was in Spain, there are TONS of fair-haired, light-skinned looking exactly like everyone else in Europe.

Mexican-like is an exaggeration. It would be an American misconception based on the term Hispanic. You won't find anyone like that anywhere in Europe except among the Romani people. I would say many individuals have similar colouring and features as Paz Vega. Valencia might be special or you saw tourists. There are plenty of northern Europeans tourists in Spain, and increasingly many settle there permanently. Galicians in northwestern Spain are relatively fair (I would say similar to darker Irish people). But that is only a small part of the country. But most are short compared to say Norwegians and Swedes, and definitely the Dutch.

In any case, the racism towards non-whites is very real. Spain and Italy struggle with protecting their borders as well as giving shelter to asylum seekers. Amnesty has urged Spain to fight racism. Check out:
YouTube - Racism in Metro of Barcelona (Spain) (curiously the police man look like many Iraqis - I stand by what I said - the open racism will mostly affect very different looking people such as American Indian South and Central Americans and sub-Saharan Africans). I don't think the situation is as bad as Russia which is probably worst in Europe where several foreign students have been killed by racist skinhead groups.

[Hasdrubal]

Spaniards have delt with minorities in not a very pleasant way. Both Muslims and Jews were expelled or ordered to convert to Christianism in 1492. The immigration issue dates back to a few years ago, so a kind of cultural shock happens. As someone has said, the racism in Spain is not the one you may find in some parts of the American South, but mostly as a result of curiosity and novelty. Of course, minorities can feel offended, but that is not the actual intention.

[El Rhino]

Originally Posted by Hasdrubal

Spaniards have delt with minorities in not a very pleasant way. Both Muslims and Jews were expelled or ordered to convert to Christianism in 1492. .

I think it's important to note here that one party (Muslims) was part of a brutal invading force and the other (Jews) were seen as collaborators with the invaders. The way you wrote that makes it seem like both parties were just hanging out in Spain minding their own business and given the boot for no reason.

[tball6733]

Originally Posted by El Rhino

I think it's important to note here that one party (Muslims) was part of a brutal invading force and the other (Jews) were seen as collaborators with the invaders. The way you wrote that makes it seem like both parties were just hanging out in Spain minding their own business and given the boot for no reason.

Under Muslim rule all were allowed to worship without harassment or demands to convert.Those areas of Spain under Muslim rule flourished. Muslims established universities which were the envy of Europe. And the collaboration you talk about were often to finance public works.The Muslim style of architecture is still admired (think Alhambra)Jews left Spain when given an ultimatum
to convert or leave which resulted the the decline of Spain.

[littleandoften]

Originally Posted by tball6733

Under Muslim rule all were allowed to worship without harassment or demands to convert.Those areas of Spain under Muslim rule flourished. Muslims established universities which were the envy of Europe. And the collaboration you talk about were often to finance public works.The Muslim style of architecture is still admired (think Alhambra)Jews left Spain when given an ultimatum
to convert or leave which resulted the the decline of Spain.

Hmmm...there are arguments and accounts of the time that go against what you said. I'm not sure I believe them, and I tend to think that the Islamic era of Spain's history did do some serious good in a number of limited ways. But maybe you miss the point. It was foreign, invasive and supplanted. I'm not sure the Spanish then or now care(d) whether the Moorish period was 'better' or not. The point is that it was not Spanish, surely?

[varduren]

Originally Posted by timpany

I have lived in Spain's capital for 8 years. I am not Spanish but I am bilingual English/Spanish (certified by the Spanish authorities). If you are looking for a job in an office you will probably find the big international companies more open. However, if you are not, things can be very complicated. Many institutions, especially public ones, are not so open to non-Spanish people. So I would say, on a superficial first-contact basis, people here are quite friendly compared to in other big cities. However, on an institutional (work) level, they are not welcoming at all. I also think we need to distinguish between friendliness and openess. While people here tend to be friendly they are often not very open. They tend to be very defensive of Spanishness and protective of the Spanish way of doing things in the workplace, even when by any objective standard this way is not efficient or beneficial. They fear foreigners displacing them in the workplace. Believe me, this can be very frustrating. Is this racism?

this sounds similar to most places in europe these days. its weird coz no one actually has the valour to accept their own xenophobia and prejudice. it may be irrelevant but my partner and i were quite overwhelmed by british xenophobia and prejudice yet britain always touts being the most tolerant in europe.

[noela]

Originally Posted by Hasdrubal

Spaniards have delt with minorities in not a very pleasant way. Both Muslims and Jews were expelled or ordered to convert to Christianism in 1492.

Not unlike other European countries which dealt with Jews and other minorities in much the same way, sometimes worse (and more recently -no, I'm not talking about nazis: antisemitism seemed to be quite widespread in some Eastern European countries well before that-). And as someone else pointed out, Muslims were indeed invaders, although they had a very advanced and wise civilization and religious tolerance. But the move against them was largely a political, not a racist one.

This said, I don't think Spain has a particularly big problem with racism (as compared with other European countries -Mediterranean places are not the most averse to immigration, being historically prone to it despite political attemps at "ethnic cleansing"-). There is racism, more as an individual rather than as a collective trait, and on the whole the smaller the town the likelier it is to find racist attitudes, because yup, those towns used to be totally homogeneous about... 10 years ago? Also, some regions within Spain are more diversity-friendly than others as Spain is VERY diverse per se. Two Spaniards coming from two different regions (Northwest and Southeast, e.g.) may be strikingly different, physically, and people from Andalusia have a large percentage of tanned, dark-curly-haired, dark-eyed individuals that wouldn't look at all foreign to many Arabs.