Questions about Amsterdam and Netherlands (educational, best, company)

[irman]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutch

By the way, typically Belgian and Dutch is our "French Frites"...we have thicker ones, called "patat". We put mayonaise on them usually. although,we have "friet saus"these days, that is mayonaise might less fat.

If you live in Belgium or the Netherlands you cannot avoid "patat", cause you will see "snackbars"selling it and people walking or sitting with a "patatje" as we say. "je" is added in Dutch if words are made smaller or cute.

What is 100 meters long and smells like mayonaise ?
A train full of Belgians ....


Dang I miss all that stuff now ...
Patat, broodje vis, good bier, taartjes, kroketjes, fantastic *cold cuts* ....
Hey ... Honey .... when can we visit Holland again ... ????

[wehotex]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutch

If you are from the US, i wouldn't worry about safety, cause murder is 5-10 times lower compared to any city in the US. Even comapred to New York, your safest metropolis. burgely is relativly high. Vandalism is very high. But outside that, crime is not a thing to worry for an American.
I know people from S-Africa, Johannesburg, the most violent city not in war, they feel very safe and that it's possible to just walk in the streets, no bars or gates or walsl around fency houses and even to walk in downtown at night. Ofcourse, like in any major city, things can happen.
you can get robbed. aslong you stay where it's crowded, there shouldn't be too many problems at night.

The nicest places to live in Amsterdam depends on what you exactly like yourself. You probably would like downtown, but that's very expensive.
i personally am not so familiar with nice neighbourhoods to live in Amsterdam, i'm from the Rotterdam area myself. but there are enough places expats or tourists or foreigners like certainly.

Around Amsterdam there are many nice places, the city of Haarlem ( Harlem in New York is named to it) is a very nice city and considdered as one of the most diverse shoppingcities of the Netherlands and one of the most pleasant cities to live overall. It's roughly 10 miles West of Amsterdam or so, you even would have a very good connection by train.
There are more nice places around Amsterdam, but it's also dependedn on what you like yourself. what kind of type of person you are etc.

Are you a real party kind of person, do you like a quiet neighbourhood.
Judging your question i guess you would like to be in a lively part of Amsterdam or livivly place around it.

Also, what would be the distance you would like to live from amsterdam. My country is small and Rotterdam and the Hague or Utrecht,the other 3 major cities are not that far away from Amsterdam either. All within 50 miles, The Hague and utrecht even less then 50 miles.

Rotterdam would be totally different kind of city, that would migth surprise you. Maybe it's refrshing to do Rotterdam, the Hague and Amsterdam for example, they are alll so different, hardly to compare. a bit like comparing LA or New York, a world of difference!! Rotterdam also has many booming trendy clubs where British fly to here for. Amsterdam people who want somethign else, go to there sometimes...or opposite.
Rotterdam is a modern city with tall buildings and a totally different atmosphere, with many multi cultural events., city of immigrants and biggest urban area of the Netherlands. ( the core city is sligthly smaller then Amsterdam)
The Hague is a bit a mix of both and the city where the goverment is located. It gets nicer every year. So dependend on how much you want to travel and what the right distance would be for you, you can enjoy yourself in these cities or many other cities. Americans would think the distances are very small, so everything is pretty close anyway.
You might even wanna try Antwerp , just across the border of Belgium. Very ncie city where many Dutch also go to for nightlife and diner.

I keep reading that Amsterdam officials are "cleaning up" the city and took away the red light distict and replaced it with clothes designers or something like that. I visited Amsterdam once and mainly for the fact that I considered it to be an "anything goes" type of place unlike anywhere in the world. I would ask the question: "If the Amsterdam gov't starts being so prudish like the rest of the world, why should any tourist want to visit there when other European capitals have more to see and do?" Besides the Anne Frank museum and the Reichmuseum, the barges and your Dutch breads and bars, just what else is there that any other European capital city could not provide? I think that Amsterdam is making a mistake if it becomes so "clean" that nobody wants to go spend their money there. I also thought that amsterdam had many foreigners there, not natives.

[Alogon]

Since a coffee shop is an approved place to smoke marijuana and outdoors is not, how long is it appropriate to stay in a coffee shop after buying some there?

When I visited Amsterdam several years ago, I bought a small amount in a coffee shop (which I hadn't done for years previously and have not dared to do since, back in the U.S.) and proceeded to enjoy it there. I was also enjoying the music that happened to be playing. About 20 min. or half an hour later, a staff member came up to me and said, "We are a business," which I took as a request to leave since I had been there long enough and was beginning to take unfair advantage. I pointed out that I had purchased not only marijuana but coffee from them, and then he didn't bother me anymore, but the incident left me uncomfortable.

I like the Dutch very much, but (due to this and two or three other minor encounters similar in tone), I'm not sure the Dutch like foreigners in return unless they pay dearly and constantly.

Another question that intrigues me is whether the large number of African and Asian immigrants in Holland are becoming a problem. Many have no intention of assimilating into the culture of their host country. They preserve ties to their country of origin and carefully shelter their children from western influence by sending them back there for schooling, even into the third generation. Retribution on girls and women who dare to exercise a few of the freedoms that are theirs according to Dutch law invite harsh retribution from relatives, up to and including murder, in the name of "family honor". Some Muslim youths are told that it is not they, but the infidels who are the guests, and that for the privilege of living among Muslims a tribute tax is due from all others. If it is not collected officially, then they may properly collect it unoffically through burglary and robbery.

I see people on the net inquiring about the crime rate in the Netherlands, hoping for evidence that it is high and rising because marijuana and prostitution are available. IF it is high or rising, it seems to me that such doctrines among the immigrants are an even likelier explanation-- but maybe we'll never know, if statistics that would substantiate this hypothesis are not published. Are they?

[FlyingDutch]

What is 100 meters long and smells like mayonaise ?
A train full of Belgians ....

Dang I miss all that stuff now ...
Patat, broodje vis, good bier, taartjes, kroketjes, fantastic *cold cuts* ....
Hey ... Honey .... when can we visit Holland again ... ????

I missed this message, but this is really funny LOL

[FlyingDutch]

I keep reading that Amsterdam officials are "cleaning up" the city and took away the red light distict and replaced it with clothes designers or something like that.

Moderator cut: copyright issues

A high number of less-educated workers, many problem neighbourhoods, a port that has been hard hit economically. Another whole generation is in danger of being lost in Rotterdam. Has the city become a ticking time bomb?
By Mark Hoogstad

Read on:
nrc.nl - International - Features - Port city Rotterdam in danger of social breakdown

[FlyingDutch]

Since a coffee shop is an approved place to smoke marijuana and outdoors is not, how long is it appropriate to stay in a coffee shop after buying some there?

Unlike in some countries, that really doesn't matter, you can read a paper, it's in pubs, cafe's the same, people sometimes stay for 2 hours, nobody will say you need to go, and they also won't come to you to clean up your table, leave you alone. That's part of local privacy culture. Dutch are extremely fond on privacy. They also don't talkt o strangers normally, except if somebody approaches them and then the ice breaks. But because of dutch privacy rules, people don't talk to eachother usually.

When I visited Amsterdam several years ago, I bought a small amount in a coffee shop (which I hadn't done for years previously and have not dared to do since, back in the U.S.) and proceeded to enjoy it there. I was also enjoying the music that happened to be playing. About 20 min. or half an hour later, a staff member came up to me and said, "We are a business," which I took as a request to leave since I had been there long enough and was beginning to take unfair advantage. I pointed out that I had purchased not only marijuana but coffee from them, and then he didn't bother me anymore, but the incident left me uncomfortable.

That's strange. There are always people who just want to earn about you. This is not common!! Maybe if it is very crowded and they like to have other customers, they might get impatient with you. LOL

I like the Dutch very much, but (due to this and two or three other minor encounters similar in tone), I'm not sure the Dutch like foreigners in return unless they pay dearly and constantly.

Dutch are merchants, they are economically minded. So that's part of culture here. If they can make money of you, they will try, Amsterdam is making lots of money on tourism and they really try to jack up the prices. Like for locals, they know wich places to go to to not pay such "tourist prices." Many Dutch also bargain these days in stores. Many go to Turkey on vacation and Dutch unlike Germans, like to bargain, it is almost a sport to just pay less, simularly, many know how to rip off tourists. But so in many other major cities and touristic cities. Same in New York.

Another question that intrigues me is whether the large number of African and Asian immigrants in Holland are becoming a problem. Many have no intention of assimilating into the culture of their host country. They preserve ties to their country of origin and carefully shelter their children from western influence by sending them back there for schooling, even into the third generation.

That is a problem Dutch goverment has bbeen to soft on immigrants. in the past we had the best welfare system of the world with Sweden and many came here and didn't even look for a job anymore, cause welfare was like 80% of an average salary. Or you coudl work fora while, then you said you became ill and if you made overtime, you received welfare according to your last earned money, including overtimes. so welfare, also unlimited in these days of duration, was higher then your salary. so thsi attracted people from all teh way to Pakistan who heard about these tupid dutch who didn't udnerstand they where abused....lol

The Dutch population warned about this, Dutch politicians didn't listen untill incidents started. So Dutch tolerance, famous globally was gollowed out, cause locals saw many criminals and abusers. Not ana verage representation of the average foreigner, this included to these different habits, we wher alient to and some peopel from certain countries throwing litter out of flats and slaughtering sheeps in entrances of flats and many dutch got sick of it and left certain neighbourhoods to "white" places.
But it's our goverment's mistake, they didn't listen, where attacked on it, they didn't do anything,it's bad for the immigrants and for many dutch both! See if you allow immigrants you should at least be capable to handle that influx you allow, so that nobody gets disappointed and make clear you do need to learn the local language and assimilate. You simply cannot dufunction if you cannot talk dutch ofcourse! when i go to Japan and i don't speak Japanese i come nowhere!!

Retribution on girls and women who dare to exercise a few of the freedoms that are theirs according to Dutch law invite harsh retribution from relatives, up to and including murder, in the name of "family honor".

Dutch, alien to these kind of things in te past also received s cultureshock in a very short period, many odl people got scared of all these foreigners, theyw here ahgning int eh streets untill midnights etc, some had knifes and in come countries it's ok to stab others, and 90% of the criminala ctivities are done by immigrants, there are few murders done by authentic Dutch people...that's a fact. so allt hat break the tolerance down of many dutch...who get the wrong impression this way of foreigners. Many also say it now, to criminal groups of Morocans, that if they do like this, they really create problems for their whole community.

Some Muslim youths are told that it is not they, but the infidels who are the guests, and that for the privilege of living among Muslims a tribute tax is due from all others. If it is not collected officially, then they may properly collect it unoffically through burglary and robbery.

True, radical imans where flown in from far away countries who enver went to my country and don't even knwo what's going on to openly do hatespeech and calling up to take us over etc. Rotterdam is building the largest mosque of western Europe outside London and another one. One is known to be funded by radical sheicks in Saoudi Arabia.

I see people on the net inquiring about the crime rate in the Netherlands, hoping for evidence that it is high and rising because marijuana and prostitution are available.

The legality of drugusage is actually making crime lower in most parts, the problem is that we get drug trafficking from other nations.But the criminale lement of drugtrade is taken away internally, if other countries woudl do teh same we wouldn't have a problem. Cause no criminal group hwould ahve any reason to trade in drugs if the price is zero. In the US crime is so high cause there is a war on drugs, that makes the price skyrocketing, same in France. I'm not sure if crime is higher then let's say parts of Northern England. Other countries have a much higher addictionrate on drugs then we have. england is a good example, they don't allow it, but have much more crime and addiction related to drugs. That's all i can say, but crime does feel higher then official statistics, but that's usually like that, same in New york for example. Cause police departments say crime is going down ebcause reports of crime are dropping, but often people who are robbed 3 times give up if the police cannot do anything , and then don't report crime anymore.

IF it is high or rising, it seems to me that such doctrines among the immigrants are an even likelier explanation-- but maybe we'll never know, if statistics that would substantiate this hypothesis are not published. Are they?

Most crime is by immigrants...most prisons are full with immigrants. an insane percentage. most murders in cold blood are doen by people fromc ertain countries, cause their mentality is different and we are too soft on them. Even many Moroccans said you cna do everything here and that we are too soft on them, in their own country they would have been punished severely. Here they rob old ladies, wich in dutch eyes is making people very angry if vulberable old laies are robbed, and beaten. while in their own country morocco they NEVER would do it, cause moroccans actually have MORE respect for the elderly then dutch.
They are simply derailed in the Netherlands. It's very complicated.There are whoel discussion on tv for years between immigrants, theri children and dutch and the problems adn what to do...lots of talk, nobody really knows it. Many swimming polls in several cities are closed, cause Moroccan youth where bothering dutch girls and trying to rape them.
I mean, that's just very sad..so if you see that happening, not one time, but many times and facilities close down because of a few weirdo's, logically that locals start to dislike these people.

Most troubles are within the Moroccan and Netherlands antilles ( Caribbean) youths. also, many of them identify with the ghetto like in the US, they are into ganstarap etc and are really getting more negative cosntantly, they are not to blame, but blame anybody else. that's not true ofcourse. I know many have it difficult, cause our govemrent made all kinds of promises they couldn't make and so many are a lost generation. But if you start to kill people or do bad things, you know your community is going in big troubles.
The Turks do much better. They also had troubles to adjust, but they start stores and most Turks are fine people, they are not hostile to dutch etc, friends and it's going well with them!!
The Turks are hard workers and streetwise. In soem tropical countries, like Africa and the Caribbean, they don't share Western labour ethics, they are what we would cal "lazy". They complain a lot, but don't work a lot.
Unliek Turks..the opposite of that! Many of these Caribbean islands where unemployed at home and just haning around, doing nothing, well, if you end up in Northern Europe or the US or Canada, you're going to get severe troubles, cause we have a different culture in relation to labor.
Ofcourse there are people from these area's who are totally different too, but all that ties in to the problems we're having. See if people think they better can trade in something illegal, then to work....and want to get rich quickly to have big cars...
If everybody just tries to do their best, like the Turks worked themselves up, there are no problems. We have no problems with the Chinese. The Chinese are not hostile to our culture, they work extremely hard and they are modest, never complaining. so whay do these groups do wella nd the otehrs not? Mentality. and some moslem youths are simply between two cultures, derailed, but really don't belong to any of them. They are not real moslems, cause they do stuff forbidden to moslems...right?

[irman]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutch

I missed this message, but this is really funny LOL

There was no message per se, FlyingDutch ... Just an old joke I remember.

OTOH, from the last questions, We (our family of me, wife and 5 kids) spent a lot of vacations in Holland while living and working in Germany and Switzerland, and we thoroughly enjoyed it.

The situations you describe can be found anywhere in any big city, but if you purposely stay away from it, you can really enjoy even all those *rude* (Humorwise) Dutchmen in the country. My wife read your comments, and she said to me, *Now I know where you get that attitude from* .... Geesj, and I am not even pure Dutch ...

You will find what you are looking for anywhere, and if it shows up near you, you probably attracted it, or attracted to it. If it is good, well, who is there to complain, but if it is bad, then what were you doing there in the first place ?

LBNL, I asked *Why FlyingDutch* ??? Do you fly or ???

[FlyingDutch]

There was no message per se, FlyingDutch ... Just an old joke I remember.

I understood irman!

OTOH, from the last questions, We (our family of me, wife and 5 kids) spent a lot of vacations in Holland while living and working in Germany and Switzerland, and we thoroughly enjoyed it.

Oh, that is really nice!! Switserland is beautifull, Germany too. All those nice towns and villages.

The situations you describe can be found anywhere in any big city, but if you purposely stay away from it, you can really enjoy even all those *rude* (Humorwise) Dutchmen in the country.

lol

My wife read your comments, and she said to me, *Now I know where you get that attitude from* .... Geesj, and I am not even pure Dutch ...

hahaha!! It's in your blood!Streaming through your vains.

You will find what you are looking for anywhere, and if it shows up near you, you probably attracted it, or attracted to it. If it is good, well, who is there to complain, but if it is bad, then what were you doing there in the first place ?

That's right. It also comes down for a big part to the mentality of the person who goes abroad. That's why many expats have different experiences. One has this, the other has that attitude.
See if you are overly sensitive. Some foreigners living abroad miss their country and when they are longer there andrealise they are not on vacation anymore, they also learnd the negative sides of a particular country ..that doesn't come easy always i think. Cause many who for example want to live in a country of their dreams, elevate that country up to fairytale level kind of proportions. Then when they finally end up there, they also learns it's just a country as any, with positive and negative sides.

LBNL, I asked *Why FlyingDutch* ??? Do you fly or ???

It's just a common name where foreigners can identify with.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fly..._the_Caribbean)

[irman]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutch

LBNL, I asked *Why FlyingDutch* ??? Do you fly or ???
It's just a common name where foreigners can identify with.

OK, got it. Else you and I have some more things in common ....

My adopted Motto:

If Nature, intended for us NOT to fly,
She would have given us roots ...
If God intended for us to fly,
He would have blessed us with more money ...

BTW, because of these posts we, wife and I, are now thinking of visiting again before we get too old to walk without crutches .....

[Alogon]

Originally Posted by FlyingDutch

You simply cannot dufunction if you cannot talk dutch ofcourse! when i go to Japan and i don't speak Japanese i come nowhere!!

Thank you for your patient reply to all my questions and comments. With the above, happily, my experience was that almost everyone in Amsterdam and Haarlem spoke English beautifully and gladly. I could almost forget that I was in a foreign country at all. This was a great relief, because I know no Dutch, and even the German and French that I have studied for years are useless in those countries when trying to understand actual conversation among native speakers or on TV. I used to think that I was good at learning foreign languages, but these experiences brought me down to earth.

Thanks again. You have reassured me on various points. Best wishes with the immigrant situation. We in the U.S. have, as you probably know, what some would call a problem with illegal Mexican residents, but most of these are hardworking people who want dearly to assimilate and become Americans, just like most immigrants to the U.S. in the centuries before them. It's different from the situation of most countries in Europe these days.