Questions about Amsterdam and Netherlands (low income, appointed, crime)

[wheregirl]

Hello,

I have a few questions about Amsterdam and the Netherlands that I hope some people here can answer some of them, thanks!

First, is there a recent movement and popular sentiment against immigrants? I read that there is a popular political party that is anti-immigrants, is the country safe and welcoming for immigrants?

Second, why is Netherlands not included in the top 13 happiest countries in the world (see the ranking by an internet search) while countries like Denmark, Sweden and Austria all rank high in the contentment/happiness of its population?

Third, for someone who speaks English and no Dutch what is the longest stay they can manage in the country without feeling uncomfortable and left out?

Forth, what are some of the safest and nicest areas for young and international people to live in and around Amsterdam?

Fifth, where are the centers of creative/artistic activities in Netherlands?


Thanks a lot.

[wheregirl]

No one knows anything about Amsterdam and Netherlands here?

[FlyingDutch]

Hi wheregirl!

I'm a Dutchman, i live near Roterdam and also close to Amsterdam, cause the distance is just 50 miles.

I will reply you within 1 hour.
I need to do a few things,then i will reply you.

[FlyingDutch]

First, is there a recent movement and popular sentiment against immigrants? I read that there is a popular political party that is anti-immigrants, is the country safe and welcoming for immigrants?

wheregirl, i can be very short on that subject or very lenghty and give you the background.

In short, in general it is and was. It was seen Globally as most tolerant nation and Amsterdam was seen as ultra tolerant city. The Scandinavian countries where also like that. But a lot happened in Europe and in particular in my country.I don't thionk that any Western immigrant would have any troubles normally. You have racists or difficult people everywhere, so my country not excluded.
That being said, the Netherlands ( |Holland) especially the city of Rotterdam , but also Amsterdam and The Hague as largest cities where literally flooded over just a few decaded.

Now, the Dutch society as most European nations or many Asian nation are societies built on one or two peoples. In my country the dutch or Batavians basicly and the Frisians. So when you go to the Netherlands you go to a country with a specific culture and heritage, wich certain traditions. so let's say you are from the Middle East and a conservative moslem and you don't like a liberal society, guaranteed you'r not going to like the Netherlands. Well, my country has been closing it's eyes for problems with immigration, like immigrants who didn't learn the local language. If you don't learn the local language, you're not going to make it and you will be lagging behind. ( most immigrants are doing well by the way, but i speak about the problems)
Also like many North Africans came from a society totally different then ours. The children of these immigrant parents felt uncomfortable very often, some feel alienated from the culture and lifestyles of their parents, but also about dutch society.
The goverment here dind't make any contracts like Switserlands, a flood of immigration was occuring and it was too muhc to handle for many institutes, for the welfare system, and for the education system. not just that, but Dutch society was not used to non european immigrants very muhc,e xcept a few Indonesians who assimilated very well since the 1950s. Islam was a new phenomenon for example. Different mentality and lifestules where imported with all the immigration. And dutch society was not built for that, problems Dutch and bureaucrats here never thought about became a problem.One phnemenon that made many locals angry was that many immigrants came from very poor area's in certain countries where they obviously thought it was ok to throw trash out of the flats or to slaughter sheep in the entrance of flats.
This lead to enormous tensions. also some small biys carried knifes and often used them....a new phenomenon to dutch society aswell.

Now there are many wonderfull immigrants, but because there where so many, most after France as percentage of the population of Europe, it also lead to a relativly large group of unintegrated people and even those who where real troublemakers. Because of our goverment allowing too many at the same time, it flooded teh system and many immigrant youngsters couldn't get a job, good education, many didn't even understand dutch. So many started to get disappointed and came in contact with criminals and before you knew it drugtrade and all kinds of crime started in the big cities , due to certain groups within the immigrant population. Most notorious groups are a criminal element in the Moroccan population and Dutch antilles ( Caribbean) population.
So many Dutch, because most crimes where done by children of immgrants or immigrants, got a unbalanced view of the average individual from Morocco or the Netherlands Antilles or from Turkey.
This lead to tensions, although most dutch still wanted to be very tolerant and said we needed to live together, you also had a growing percentage living in urban area's themselves who saw this and became negative about immigrants. Usually it's not that deep, cause if an immigrant approaches them nicely, they think of that person positivly. It went like this :"all those moroccans, there are too many and they are all criminal, but not my Moroccan neighbour, he's a nice guy". You understand?

The blame is on our goverment who justallowed too many at the same time, see you have to have sustainable amounts so that the system can handle it, otherwise you get disappointed immigrants and their childen who feel lost and alienated and you get irritated and angry dutch.

Even many immigrants where sick and tired of troubles and many thought that there where too many immigrants especially in the city of rotterdam, where most non European immigrants live and they wanted to integrate themselves and talk with authentic dutch people.

A few years back you had Pim fortuyn, a populist, but not a racist. He was saying there where too many immigrants, but pointing his fingers on these problems. Well, many in the top of his party where people of color and most people who voted on him where black and other color people in Rotterdam who agreed. He was shot, but a left winger...anyway, the last years there are two political parties who deal with immigration who go beyond Fortuyn.They are in a sense racist. Like Geert wilders. What i know is that he met in Israel and witht eh Mossad, and they have an agenda to bash islam for their own geostrategic interrests.
Wilders says to be for complete freespeech but wants to ban the Koran.
It's not like fortuyn that he only adressed problems with immigration, but he only doing attacks and generalization, without bringing up any real solution. The things he says are often hurting immigrant people.
See he talsk about Islam and moroccans, but enver say that most Moslems living in the Netherlands or most Moroccans are good people, that it is a group within their community that causes troubles. Hes not doing that! He's just generalizing them all....without a solution.
Hirschi Ali did the same if you ever heard of here name'. she was a moslem herself, but got disgusted with it and came to the Netherlands, but started to get provocative on them. There are problems, but those people only devide society and nothing good or positive is coming out of their mouths. Unlike Fortuyn, i can see hate in their eyes and way of speaking.

Becasue unemployment was extremely low the last years, one of the lowest of the western world, it was easier for many imigrants to get a job, so things are improving there, hardly perfect. Many Dutch and immigrants are good enighbours and friends. In general if people start to talk with eachother , the ice breaks and things go well. That's what i see.
Dutch are very in a rush always, very stressy, so the last years social contacs are breaking down, we are one of the most stressy people on the planet acording to researches. It's alsoa very crowded and dense populated country, very modern, so that doesn't really help either.

ok, i don't know if this si sufficient about immigration, i can explain a lot more, so if you have specific question, just ask me.

[FlyingDutch]

Second, why is Netherlands not included in the top 13 happiest countries in the world (see the ranking by an internet search) while countries like Denmark, Sweden and Austria all rank high in the contentment/happiness of its population?

Actually after the Icelanders ( before their financial collapse) we where secondly ranked, over many years the dutch where int eh top of happiest people on the planet.

Dutch happiest people in Europe
Dutch happiest people in Europe - Europe Forum

Why are Dutch children so happy?
BBC NEWS | Europe | Why are Dutch children so happy?

Why Dutch Kids are Happier Than Yours
Why Dutch Kids are Happier Than Yours - TIME

year 2000, dutch happiest of the world:
Dutch are happiest, says survey - Europe, World - The Independent

Many more sources.
It depends on what year that research is taken.
also my country went down for a few years because of soem incidents with Theo Van Gogh who was stabbed and some other bizar incidents, wich had a great impact. My country is very village like compared to the US, so if violence happes and it is against freedom of speech, it has an enormous impact on the Dutch psyche and many people feel treathened and in researches, also locally you see it had impact on how happy people felt.
The last years we're back in the top of happiest. Dutch are worried about financial problem, the creditcrisis etc, but are satisfied about their own financial situation, life and familylife. The last years the country did very well economically and purchasing power went up to one of the highest of the world, so that's why many people don't feel the pain like in some other countries, also in combination with ahistorically low unemployment the last years. The income per head of the population is 15% higher then in the US over 2008. It's in the list of absolute wealthiest countries, top 10-11, wich includes afew very tiny countries of less then a million of population.

Dutch are wealthier then Danes, Swedes or austrian in purchasing power. Swedes are just ahead of us in income terms, Danes even a chunk more, but corrected for the standard of living we're doing better then all these countries. Swedes have a very low purchasing power, cause their taxes are incredibly high. So it's logical that we are back in the top as income is just an important factor for many people to be happy. Not always, cause many Caribbean nations wich have a low income are amonst the happiest people. Sunny weather, good climate also count or a relaxed society.

Social balances are important, countries wich an equal distribution of income are performing well on average with teh happy index. Sweden, Denmark, Austria and the Netherlands are 3 countries where this is the case. Unlike the UK for example where there are enormous gaps between rich and poor and social imbalances, many social problems aswell.

I hope i answered your question sufficiently wheregirl!

[FlyingDutch]

Third, for someone who speaks English and no Dutch what is the longest stay they can manage in the country without feeling uncomfortable and left out?

I think that is a question wich will be replied in a different way by almost anybody you would ask it to. It's hard to say, i can tell you something, but somebody else might have a different experience. ne bad experience might be enough for one person to get a different view about it. for another maybe not.

I will try to answer you according to my insight, wich is not a hard fact.

In the past the Dutch worked less, there was a more relaxed society, the Dutch are pretty busy with jobhunting, careers, going on vacation as many tiems as possible and many other things.
They are stressy on average, according to researches, and i agree. Belgians or way more relaxed then we are for example,a world of difference. So somebody who woudl live as an expat in the Netherlands woudl probably get a different impression 20 years ago then today in dutch society!
That being said, it also depends on the person who is going to live in the Netherlands and on those individuals you meet, not everybody is the same. Dutch are usually a little hard to approach. We have some cultural characterestics that are not always understood by a foreigner.
Like say you are ringing the bell at your neighbour. The chance is big that dutch won't invite you for diner, wich might be very rude for a Brazilian for example or other cultures.
Dutch are extremely fond on privacy. It's being said that this is due to teh enormous population density and many different streamings of religion and ideologies and that the only way to keep the nation tolerant,wich it always was seen, is for Dutch to pull back in their house with theri family to just be on themselves for a while. Here again, it's just a generalization, not necessarily true for every Dutch individual you meet! Dutch are, according to my opinion, more egocentric then years ago. Pretty much egocentric, youngsters even more so. They are so busy with themselves, their babies, chuildren, careers and planning a far away vacation, or buying a nice home, that they rather don't make time for friends eough, family, leave alone strangers. This might be a little negative, many are also not like that and very nice open warm people.

dutch are pretty much interrested in foreigners normally, and for an American or Canadian it's pretty easy to make contact, cause Dutch people like North americans very much. What dutch and Americns have in common is that they are very direct. Unlike English or Japanese wich have many subtile ways to make things clear or never truly tell their opiniopn or what they think as they are wrapped around in traditionals and politness. ( now i am generalizing about English and Japanese, might not be true for every individual, but culturally more so then Dutch or Americans)

Once you break the ice, even if they appear initially hard to approach, you might notice that dutch are very open and direct. Wich is a thing most Americans like.
For Japanese it might be shocking, they say we can be rude and that "where Dutch have walked, no grass is growing anymore", one of tehri expressions. for instance, if you are americans and you woudl start to talka bout politics, don't be surprised if a dutchman would start to complain about former president buhs and tell his opinion very clear to you, while you might feel offended as American. It's absolutely no personal attack, they might like you a lot, but that's just how dutch are, they dot eh same about their own politicians or about anything, very strong opinions,wich to certain cultures might be shocking.
It's said that Dutch are openminded by most people. The only thing what is a big taboo, is how much money somebody makes, a big no no. You can talk about sex and most thing many people would think is very shocking, but for Dutch it's shocking to reveal how much money they make or how big theri savings are.
We have a few cultural things that might come across as stingy or inhiospital, but it's not really that, it's just a way of living, soem cultural thing.
but for a foreigners certain habits might feel like they are not welcome, while dutch are not aware that they are making you feel like that.
i know an american woman, married to a dutchman. she's having a good life here, she also had to get used to big mouths, very clear opinions, but really feels home now. she speaks Dutch fluently. Dutch love it if you can talk dutch well. It's aguarantee for being accepted. Dutch love to try their Englihs to Americans. to excercise and because they think it's interresting.
as soon you are plannign to really live in the netherland,s then things change and if you're not an expat, but reallly planning to live here for a long time, then Dutch expect you to learn Dutch. If you wouldn't do that, many Dutch would start to be disappointed. ...except if you try, but you are just having troubles learning the language, nobody would blame you for that. It's not an easy language.
If you would just enter a party, like a birthday party, there is almost a guarantee that any Anglo saxon person would find no troubles enjoying theirselves and finding somebody to talk in English. Most dutch speak english, not all on high level, but enough to make themselves clear or do a conversation with. Dutch are said to be one of the best in speaking English outside the Anglo Saxon countries. As American you would probably shae many things Dutch are familiar with, like American tv series and programmes of the last decades for example.

There are alwasy expats or people who stay or stayed longer in the Netherlands who felt left out. what are the causes?
It can be the foreigner him or herself, it can be the particular people he or she met, you really can't tell. I know many Indians who live here and according to them they love it here. They go out, have a good time, have Dutch and Indian friends and don't planing to leave.
One Indian couple i know went to Australia, they also lived in the UK and they wanted to live in Australia for a while, they left, went for jobhunting, but weren't able to find a job. They where well educated, but they came back 6 months later and now decided to stay here. They have many friends anyway. Indians and Chinese people are people who usually talk with other people, that's my experience at least, and they have no problems to settle at all. some people from other cultures, especially moslem countries have more troubles, but not all of them either...it depends. Many Turks are doing very well, many are doing better every year and starting business. One in five companies started in the Netherlands are started by Turks. There are a million Turks on 16.5 million people. Many dutch go on vacation to Turkey got positive about it, and make a conversation with turks in the Netherlands, i think the Dutch and turks go along better and better and they are the most populous immigrant group here by far!

It depends on you, it depends on who you meet, i don't think there is a real truth in answering it, it's what you make of it. If you meet unfriendly people, you migth seek fro different Dutch people and you might feel welcome. I don't think American would have much troubles, most Dutch love Americans. Even after 8 years of Bush, they will likely say that, but it doesn't mean anything, they just express their opinion.
Right now there is an Obamanania here. People expect a lot of him, too much i guess.

[FlyingDutch]

Forth, what are some of the safest and nicest areas for young and international people to live in and around Amsterdam?

If you are from the US, i wouldn't worry about safety, cause murder is 5-10 times lower compared to any city in the US. Even comapred to New York, your safest metropolis. burgely is relativly high. Vandalism is very high. But outside that, crime is not a thing to worry for an American.
I know people from S-Africa, Johannesburg, the most violent city not in war, they feel very safe and that it's possible to just walk in the streets, no bars or gates or walsl around fency houses and even to walk in downtown at night. Ofcourse, like in any major city, things can happen.
you can get robbed. aslong you stay where it's crowded, there shouldn't be too many problems at night.

The nicest places to live in Amsterdam depends on what you exactly like yourself. You probably would like downtown, but that's very expensive.
i personally am not so familiar with nice neighbourhoods to live in Amsterdam, i'm from the Rotterdam area myself. but there are enough places expats or tourists or foreigners like certainly.

Around Amsterdam there are many nice places, the city of Haarlem ( Harlem in New York is named to it) is a very nice city and considdered as one of the most diverse shoppingcities of the Netherlands and one of the most pleasant cities to live overall. It's roughly 10 miles West of Amsterdam or so, you even would have a very good connection by train.
There are more nice places around Amsterdam, but it's also dependedn on what you like yourself. what kind of type of person you are etc.

Are you a real party kind of person, do you like a quiet neighbourhood.
Judging your question i guess you would like to be in a lively part of Amsterdam or livivly place around it.

Also, what would be the distance you would like to live from amsterdam. My country is small and Rotterdam and the Hague or Utrecht,the other 3 major cities are not that far away from Amsterdam either. All within 50 miles, The Hague and utrecht even less then 50 miles.

Rotterdam would be totally different kind of city, that would migth surprise you. Maybe it's refrshing to do Rotterdam, the Hague and Amsterdam for example, they are alll so different, hardly to compare. a bit like comparing LA or New York, a world of difference!! Rotterdam also has many booming trendy clubs where British fly to here for. Amsterdam people who want somethign else, go to there sometimes...or opposite.
Rotterdam is a modern city with tall buildings and a totally different atmosphere, with many multi cultural events., city of immigrants and biggest urban area of the Netherlands. ( the core city is sligthly smaller then Amsterdam)
The Hague is a bit a mix of both and the city where the goverment is located. It gets nicer every year. So dependend on how much you want to travel and what the right distance would be for you, you can enjoy yourself in these cities or many other cities. Americans would think the distances are very small, so everything is pretty close anyway.
You might even wanna try Antwerp , just across the border of Belgium. Very ncie city where many Dutch also go to for nightlife and diner.

[FlyingDutch]

Fifth, where are the centers of creative/artistic activities in Netherlands?

Those are mainly in Amsterdam.
Rotterdam is trying to compete and there is more to do in that area every year. But Amsterdam is culturally and artistically dominant pretty much.
In that area of creativity and artistic expression Amsterdam is a very interresting city. They probably have more then any other worldcity per square km or square mile of that. That's often said, i think it's true. Amsterdam is relativly small, but there is a lot to do. Dutch cities are not so big, but on the other hand those cities do have everything that larger cities have in other countries, cause those are the major cities of this country, so you can find everything there.
They also have the most bustling nightlife per square km of any worldcity.
although the last years i heard it is going less good. The city made a few bad decisions and discouraged certain developments in the city, this while Rotterdam as city tries to proliferate itself and makes itself into a modern and also interresting city to be, and there are also many surprising places. Tourism is growing there, although most tourists rather go for old merchant houses and channels, not for modern architecture of Rotterdam.
some of the nations and one of Euro's most trendy clubs for example are in Rotterdam, not in Amsterdam. so it might be a surprise.
Overal Amsterdam is the place to be for creativity, absolutely!
It's like SoHo in New York or places in San Fransisco, but in many area's of Amsterdam you find that.

wheregirl, i hope i was able to help you. In case you have questions, things are not clear or you want to know more, just ask me any time!

[wheregirl]

Oh my Goodness, FlyingDutch, you are soooo wonderfully helpful! That really speaks volumes for the nice Dutch people!

Thank you. Now I have a much better idea what is going on.

So my question is: if this immigration problem with the Muslims gets worse could it be manipulated to spread to other people, like the Indians, Chinese and Americans? Is this a racist problem or a class problem (poor immigrants)? How are those well-educated Indians and Chinese doing in the Netherlands? Are there some factions of the Neo-Nazi that may start to want to discriminate other races in general? (See, it has nothing to do with Dutch people or in the past with the German people, just how likely the population will be brain-washed and manipulated by some with political motivations. )

What are Dutch people like in the long-term relationships and short-term relationships with others (as a generalization)? For example, the generalization of the British is that they may not talk to you for the first whole year but if they do ever become your friend they can be loyal. And the generalization of the people Los Angeles in America is that they will greet you even if you are a stranger on the street but they won't be real friends with you over time.

It is interesting that the only Dutch person I knew in America is indeed egocentric, but he was also one of the most helpful person on matters that mattered. What is going on? They appear quite selfish on the surface but are quite different inside. Is that the opposite of some other culture/people?

Thanks a lot for your insights, you have been most helpful.

[FlyingDutch]

Oh my Goodness, FlyingDutch, you are soooo wonderfully helpful! That really speaks volumes for the nice Dutch people!

I'm glad it was helpfull.


Thank you. Now I have a much better idea what is going on.




So my question is: if this immigration problem with the Muslims gets worse could it be manipulated to spread to other people, like the Indians, Chinese and Americans? Is this a racist problem or a class problem (poor immigrants)?

It's rather a cultural problem different habits, different religion / culture. The group moslems i talk about are those where culture and religion is hard to seperate and many who some of those are hostile. They are here, but not because they like us and our culture, but to make money for example. Once again, most moslems are not like it, but there is a significant group who are like that,e vent eh most liberal left wing political party is admitted this problem exist. Many people in the street tried to tell politicians 20 years ago, sicne that time there where growign tensions, nothing happened. Right now it's an issue, but like always, politicians are exploiting the problem that exist for their own party politics and interrests.

There is almost nor acist problem, there are racists in every nation,also in Africa or in the Arab world against whites, but i assume that 98% of the population are not racists.Most troulbes are culturally or habit or religion related.

Actually the Netherlands was a very tolerant country, known as one of the or the most tolerant untill a few years ago. I think it still is,s ome peopel are just irritated.But it doens't matter what color skin you have if you participate with society,if people talk Dutch and show they like Dutch.
See, if an immigrant is openly showing disgust for dutch habits etc, you really can forget about it. If people notice you actually don't like dutch culture or don't like Dutch people, then you see tensions arise. Logically, cause if you don't give love you don't receive it either, see it in that way a bit. go any pu or place, you will see dutch and black or other people being friends and getting along well. So the problems that exist are culturally / religiously related.

Therefore scuha problem if it ever would go out of control wouldn't make Chinese, Indians or Americans victims, cause everybody agrees that they are not a problem. Indians seek Dutch to make friends with, so do Americans, Chinese are on their own pretty much, but at the same time respectfull to Dutch and the opposite. so there is mutal respect.
I think that's the most important thing, if this mutual respect is lacking on one or the other side, then problems arise. I cannot see Americans ever getting in troubles unless a war would start between my country and the US for example. But sicne we are the oldest friend of the US, that's unlikely to happen i think, there are many political and business relations that go very deep.

How are those well-educated Indians and Chinese doing in the Netherlands?

Extremely well!! They run shops make a lot of money, they are doctors, dentists, or other well paid jobs. Actually most Asians are into highly educated jobs.Chinese people in Rotterdam where attacked by some gangs for example, because everybody knew that once in a week they carried large amounts of money, going to the bank. Certain groups, call them little gangs, attacked Chinese shops and robbed them. Because the chinese are not very vocal and suffer alone, many dutch got angry ont eh robbers and told the Chinese to not be silent and rise up. sicne then soemthing special happened, before the Rotterdam cityhall there where demonstrations where dutch and other colored people encouraged to protest with themfor protection. Soem chinese women where raped aswell by robbers, so it was getting very seriously. now it goes a lot better!

Are there some factions of the Neo-Nazi that may start to want to discriminate other races in general?

They do exist everywhere, even in Israel, i'm seriously. But not in a big amount, not organized. This is a thing you rather have in Sweden, Germany, Austria and Belgium where the problems are the biggest in that regard.

(See, it has nothing to do with Dutch people or in the past with the German people, just how likely the population will be brain-washed and manipulated by some with political motivations. )

What i see, and that's how it went in the past and right now it seems this will happen again, that any political parties that hold to that view or close to it die out, because they are all populist, don't have any answers.
I think the far majority of people are well educated enough and alos out of exprence with foreign neighbours to understand we're all just people, that there are bad one with and good one. some immigrant groups might need 1, 2 or 3 generations to get adjusted. Like the turks, or Surinamish, they do better every year!!
Exceptions are there but in general there is no white or black racist seperation for example. That doens't necessarily say that all places where whites ahng out is a place where black hang out or the opposite. soemtimes, soemtimes not,t he difference might be culturally.
Like Caribbean people have a certain type of culture, so are attracted by their own pubs or places to hang out to unite in their culture, and whites might not go there. but there are places where they all comes together for example.There have been a few places in Rotterdam where clubs where racist only black or only white, this was a problem for the city. but that's how those groups wanted it, so these are more race orientated groups, mayeb they are a few percent oft hepopulation on both side, you always people who are not "colorblind" so to speak.

I don't think that there could be any party manipulating the masses into real racism, i hope it enver happens. I can see mosques being burnt. a few years ago after heavy tensions churches and mosques got burnt.
This stopt, i can see this happen in the future once again. Question is if people, moslems and non moslems are able to ignore violence of the groups within the two sides. so far that goes pretty well.

What are Dutch people like in the long-term relationships and short-term relationships with others (as a generalization)? For example, the generalization of the British is that they may not talk to you for the first whole year but if they do ever become your friend they can be loyal. And the generalization of the people Los Angeles in America is that they will greet you even if you are a stranger on the street but they won't be real friends with you over time.

This is a bit the story i tried to explain you in the last post. It depends.
Well,don't expect peopel to great you except in villages.
Dutch, like British or Scandinavians are Northern Europeans and they all tend to be a little cold on first glance maybe to some other cultures. We are a bit flat of emotional expression. although lots of expression is put in listening to music. If i generalize, then Dutch might not immediatly start a conversation with a stranger, if somebody starts to talk with them, you might break the ice very fast. some Dutch are shy to talk to strangers.
you might find the most incredible friend or individual , but it's hidden behind the surface of a kind of shield around the person. You have to pierce through that shield. Maybe we are not so different then the British you talked about in that regard.

It is interesting that the only Dutch person I knew in America is indeed egocentric, but he was also one of the most helpful person on matters that mattered. What is going on? They appear quite selfish on the surface but are quite different inside. Is that the opposite of some other culture/people?

Americans had the name to be materialistic and egocentric, but i'm not sure if this is really true compared to some Europeans in my area.
As far dutch are concerned, they're not like somebody in Texas that offer a car to foreigners, like my cousin, a pilot experienced. People would be terrified to offer a car, cause it might be stolen. What is of them they really defend with all might i guess. Indeed it's not untill you get to know a person better and more importantly, untill the dutch person get to know you better, trusts you etc, before he starts to get open and might share anything with you, wich might be unexpected if you judged them at first glance! lol. You just have to go through a shield. dutch have pretty big mouths, on the workingplace, they say a lot to eachother wich British would never do for example, or only in a very subtile manner. so many people, especially because not wanting to be hurt emotionally, have built a shield of ice around them you might say. Most peopel are much nicer then they appear at first glance.

Thanks a lot for your insights, you have been most helpful.

I'm very glad to hear that wheregirl