Retiring to a third world county? (vacation home, purchase, quality of life)

[pigeonhole]

Originally Posted by vantexan

You're right, the weather isn't perfect although I hear Salta has a pretty nice climate. It's up in the NW area you mentioned. Having grown up in Florida and spent many years in Texas I'm trying to avoid humidity. Loved the air in the Rockies. There's a small city in southern Mendoza province, San Rafael, that looks good. Temps in the winter get into the mid-30's for lows. It's got flat terrain(although it's close to the Andes), very shady streets, and low humidity. Due to all that using bikes for transportation is very popular and there are more bikes than cars on the streets. It's a real outdoor lifestyle type place. There's even whitewater rafting and some of the country's best skiing nearby. San Rafael's economy is mostly agriculture, primarily vineyards and orchards. It's got about 170,000 in the area and Mendoza, with about a million people, is 143 miles away, You can get to Santiago, Chile in 4 hrs. Mendoza is supposed to have just about everything, even Walmart. Are you looking at Brazil? I know those beaches are great but the crime stats really throw me. I was interested in northern Thailand but it seems their gov't makes it difficult to live there. I am planning to spend some time in the Philippines looking for a wife. Who knows, might end up staying, but I'm thinking Argentina is it unless it becomes much more expensive. One other place to consider for $500 a month living, Guatemala. Americans are doing that in Quetzaltenango, it's 2nd largest city, also known as Xela, pronounced Shayla. Gets cold at night during the winter as it's about 7000' high if I remember right. Has new mall with 5 screen multiplex, even a new Wendy's. Guatemala has serious crime issues. Probably best place to avoid crime in Guatemala is Antigua, which is very nice, near perfect weather, beautiful scenery, but considerably more expensive than Xela. An excellent forum is Xela Pages. Can't remember the name but there's a town on Nicaragua's Pacific coast that's gotten popular with expats. Grenada is also popular but from what I read has boiling hot weather. That's the Nicaraguan city, not the island. Having lived several places on the Mexican border I'm a little turned off of Mexico, although I hear there are some pretty nice cities in the middle of the country. I moved to the border to work, and had planned to head south to explore. I literally for several years read everything I could find on Mexico. But I encountered so much anti-Anglo bias that I decided to look beyond Mexico in hopes that people would have a more favorable view of Americans. In primarily mestizo countries there's so much crime, corruption, poor infrastructure, disease, red tape, etc that you've got to be willing to put up with alot. Not saying that it's all bad, there are some great places in most countries. But what draws me to Argentina is that most of those issues are minimal, and being such a large country I can enjoy travel in it and Chile next door, as well as Uruguay and the far south of Brazil, comfortably and safely. In places like Ecuador and Guatemala people are often forced off the road, including busses, and robbed. Women raped while the men were on their knees with guns at their heads. Not an everyday thing, but not rare either. You either spend your time in certain safer areas, or you stay behind locked doors and barred windows. I'll take the cold air!

About the safety issue, I've got positive feedback on Jalisco state in Mexico as a whole, particularly Banderas Bay and Lake Chapala , do you know these places ?

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

About the safety issue, I've got positive feedback on Jalisco state in Mexico as a whole, particularly Banderas Bay and Lake Chapala , do you know these places ?

I haven't followed Mexico that much recently, but I've read a bit on the Lake Chapala area. It's the biggest expat area in Mexico. There are so many Americans and Canadians in the area that you really don't need to speak Spanish to get by. The Lake Chapala Society sponsors all kinds of social events, there's a good library and an English language newspaper. Alot of shops in the area cater to American tastes. As far as safety goes there were several retirees in the 90's who were murdered there, couldn't say what the current situation is. It's much more expensive than much of Mexico, but the climate is spring like year'round. There's also Guadalajara, Mexico's 2nd largest city, about 50 miles away with everything you can't find in Chapala. You can get DirecTV Latin America in Mexico with most of the English channels, or you can take your receiver down and use a larger dish to get your American tv. Just put it on automatic bill pay back in the States. 2 books with alot of info available at most major bookstores are "Choose Mexico" by John Howells and "Mexico" Mike Nelson's book "Live Better South of the Border." Nelson's book does a very good job of describing cities in Mexico and there are a number in central Mexico that offer a good quality of life for much less than Lake Chapala. Just depends on how fluent you are and how independent you want to be. Hope this helps!

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by Badger

I heard that in Ecuador you can get a 6 month tourist visa and simply live there for that amount of time. If you're retired and just want to spend a few months (2-6) in a country (without moving permanently) this might be a possibility.

is this a standard length tourist visa for most countries? are there any limitations to how often one can get a tourist visa in a certain time period?

I'm not sure I would want to move full-time but could see wanting to spend several months at a crack in a foreign locale.

Ecuador allows you to stay up to 6 months in a 12 month period. If you want to stay longer you have to get a resident visa. Interesting thing about Ecuador is that by either putting $25,000 in a bank, or buying real estate worth at least $25,000, you can get permanent residency. That gives you all the rights of a citizen except the right to vote or hold office. Two places popular with expats are Cuenca and Cotacachi. Supposed to be about 10,000 Americans living in Ecuador.

[pigeonhole]

YEAH, thanks, vantexan, it does help!
But murders in Chaoala ? OMG! where ?
San Miguel de Allende ?
You say it's expensive, too much maybe for a Social Security retirement scheme?

[STT Resident]

Originally Posted by msta999

I have been reading an online magazine, which talks about people leaving the US, UK and other western countries to retire in third world countries. The reason is because you can live so much cheaper there. Anyone know of anyone doing this? I have thought of something similar, but I would do it before I reach retirement age. I guess the key would to have something going, so you have an income coming in. There are countries where you can live comfortably for as little as 500 a month.....so they are saying.

Retiring On $500 A Month | EFAM | Escape From America Magazine

Retiring on $500 a Month: How to Afford a Better Life in the Sun - Part 2 | EFAM | Escape From America Magazine

My question is, do you know anyone who has done this? Is it working?

I've read through this whole thread and found it extremely interesting and informative for the most part.

One issue that hasn't been addressed, though, is health care. When thinking about "retirement" one naturally assumes retirement age as being generally 50-60 years old which is when health issues in general become more of an issue.

Just to bring home the point without getting into all the ins and outs, I saw a couple for several years in my restaurant in the US Virgin Islands. They were from NYC, bought a condo here, visited several times a year and planned on making their condo on St Thomas their retirement home. They were in their late 60's, looked much younger than their years, were in generally very good health with regular checkups, etc.

All of a sudden, in NYC, the husband had a brain aneurism which came out of nowhere. An ambulance was on site within minutes, he was taken to a nearby hospital, emergency surgery was performed and he came out just fine.

Following this episode they realized that their dream of retiring to St Thomas just wouldn't work. Had the aneurism popped while he was here, there is no question that he would NOT have survived.

They sold their condo here and purchased a new and very luxurious condo in Florida where they were within easy reach of an array of medical facilities and come here now as visitors, staying in rental accommodation.

It's something to consider where retirement is concerned. Cheers!

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

YEAH, thanks, vantexan, it does help!
But murders in Chaoala ? OMG! where ?
San Miguel de Allende ?
You say it's expensive, too much maybe for a Social Security retirement scheme?

Hi pigeonhole, if you owned a home outright and you and your spouse are both getting Social Security then it would be a pretty nice life. Trying to rent might be cutting it close but your best bet is to go investigate current conditions.

San Miguel is popular with both expats and well off Mexicans who come from Mexico City for weekends and vacations. Not as many Americans as Lake Chapala but prices for homes are pretty steep due to it's popularity.

Back in the 90's I use to read Mexico Connect's forum religiously until they started charging a subscription fee. Back then it was the best Mexico forum. That's where I learned about those murders. I think they were in Ajijic, the primary town on the lake. Retirees found in their homes either beaten or stabbed to death. There are bad people wherever you go and it may be that older Americans might be too trusting or don't take the necessary precautions to keep thieves out. In most of Latin America there are bars on windows everywhere. A fact of life there. Another facet of life there is you'll see wonderful interiors of homes but you'd never know it from the plainess outside. People don't advertise their wealth with ornate exteriors. I think overall the Lake Chapala area is much safer than major cities in the States.

By the way, Tagbilaran is on Bohol Island, home of the Chocolate Hills!

[vantexan]

Originally Posted by STT Resident

I've read through this whole thread and found it extremely interesting and informative for the most part.

One issue that hasn't been addressed, though, is health care. When thinking about "retirement" one naturally assumes retirement age as being generally 50-60 years old which is when health issues in general become more of an issue.

It's something to consider where retirement is concerned. Cheers!

Good point. You can get good treatment in the 3rd world, but you need to identify the local hospitals that give good care. Read once that in Mazatlan there's an excellent hospital, and others that might kill you in an emergency. Many doctors in 3rd world countries studied in Europe and the States. And some countries, like Thailand and India, have excellent medical facilities for those that can pay for it. That is a major advantage. You can pay as you go in much of the world because it's very affordable. Medicine too.

[russjw]

margarita island, I think is the best bet. We left the states 2 years ago with 3 kids and 3 dogs and came here. Im pretty sure its about the cheapest cost of living in the world. Gas is between 4 and 10 cents a gallon, electric bill for a big house with ac running alot 20 dollars a month. Alll produce is organic by law, no taxes, no hurricanes.

[msta999]

russjw,
how did you find out about margarita island? I have never even heard of it. Can you tell us a little about the area, people and such?

Thanks.

[Bluesbabe]

My two nephews went to Belize about 3 years ago to scout the place out for possible career establishment, cost of living, and so on so forth. They came back discouraged, found it a lot more expensive now that so many people have retired there.

But I didn't extract any details because I wasn't particularly interested.