What is your idea of a perfect world? (violent crime, neighborhood)

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by Sweden

But in a perfect world, everyone would be in charge and no government needed,

Yep. That's the part that most folks can't seem to understand. Government has and always will be the root of the problem no matter the social system (capitalism, socialism, communism)... Some folks can't fathom there not being a government in the various forms we see today.

[pigeonhole]

You are all daydreaming, buddies, there is no and never will be a perfect world , only
perfect individual or global moments that allow us briefly a glimpse on Eternity : a perfect summer day, or a divine music , or the day Man Walked On The Moon (a common achievement of humanity curtesy of NASA), or delicious food, or a a beautiful, pristine landscape,or a climax in lovemaking, etc.
But a perfect world? it would be boring , anyway!

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

Yep. That's the part that most folks can't seem to understand. Government has and always will be the root of the problem no matter the social system (capitalism, socialism, communism)...

That's a slogan without proof. I submit that you can't prove it--it's just one of those statements that sounds so good everyone keeps repeating it without thinking about what it means. The fact that all human government becomes some sort of kleptocracy does not make it the root of the problem. The root of the problem has to do with the humans who keep setting up such governments, and the other humans who let them get away with it. Something in the human mind and makeup must be responsible for this. That, not government, is the root of the problem.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

You are all daydreaming, buddies,

And you thought that such a thread was for any purpose other than daydreaming? Why?

[linicx]

My perfect world would be peaceful and civil. Teachers would do their part and kids would want to learn. Education would be focused more on learning how to function in a real world and less on memorizing useless information to pass a test. It is a sad fact that home schooled children learn more and are better educated at 12th grade than most students in most high schools. .

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

That's a slogan without proof. I submit that you can't prove it--

True, I can't. But then again, you can't disprove it either. So we just keep plodding along with the same failed choices. No one seems to be able to think beyond those choices.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

True, I can't. But then again, you can't disprove it either. So we just keep plodding along with the same failed choices. No one seems to be able to think beyond those choices.

Certainly I can disprove it; I just did, but I'll do it again. Governments are comprised of humans, wouldn't you agree with me thus far? Humans keep choosing to set up/tolerate kleptocracies, authority over themselves, taking their resources and giving back inferior benefits. Would you disagree? Humans periodically revolt against this or that kleptocracy, and in its place they proclaim that it's all going to be wonderful now, and within a few years it's usually a far worse kleptocracy (sometimes longer, sometimes immediately): take virtually any revolution as an example. Thus, government is not the problem. The problem is the factor in the human mentality that either:

a) sees and seizes the opportunity for kleptocracy, completely ignoring high-minded principles, or...

b) bovinely endures kleptocracy after kleptocracy, allowing itself to get all hyped up about how great it's going to be this time, then finding out that eagerly awaiting a new government is like eagerly awaiting a Microsoft operating system. Less suck, more suck, but always fundamental suck.

Humanity could, if it wished, crush kleptocracy. It does not, nor does it ever learn from its past mistakes. That is a problem within human behavior and psychology. It is not a problem within government. Bad government is simply a symptom of the root problem.

Thus, for you to say that government is the root of the problem is like saying that a runny nose is the root of a health problem. The cold that's causing the snotflow is the root of the problem. The snotflow itself is a symptom.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

Certainly I can disprove it; I just did, but I'll do it again. Governments are comprised of humans, wouldn't you agree with me thus far? Humans keep choosing to set up/tolerate kleptocracies, authority over themselves, taking their resources and giving back inferior benefits. Would you disagree? Humans periodically revolt against this or that kleptocracy, and in its place they proclaim that it's all going to be wonderful now, and within a few years it's usually a far worse kleptocracy (sometimes longer, sometimes immediately): take virtually any revolution as an example. Thus, government is not the problem. The problem is the factor in the human mentality that either:

a) sees and seizes the opportunity for kleptocracy, completely ignoring high-minded principles, or...

b) bovinely endures kleptocracy after kleptocracy, allowing itself to get all hyped up about how great it's going to be this time, then finding out that eagerly awaiting a new government is like eagerly awaiting a Microsoft operating system. Less suck, more suck, but always fundamental suck.

Humanity could, if it wished, crush kleptocracy. It does not, nor does it ever learn from its past mistakes. That is a problem within human behavior and psychology. It is not a problem within government. Bad government is simply a symptom of the root problem.

Thus, for you to say that government is the root of the problem is like saying that a runny nose is the root of a health problem. The cold that's causing the snotflow is the root of the problem. The snotflow itself is a symptom.

And your solution?

[w1ngzer0]

Originally Posted by Mopac1980

What is your idea of a perfect world?

My idea of a perfect world is to be free from evil, racism, warfare, corruption, anger, jealousy, envy, sadness, poverty, diseases, illness, snobbery, egos and drugs

It would be nice, but humans are too destructive. Your perfect world describes mine minus the mansion and luxury crap.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

And your solution?

There is no solution. Within the future that I can foresee, humans will always defeat any attempts at a solution, whether through evil or apathy. The social contract ultimately depends upon voluntary compliance, and the most admirable social contract will be seen by some humans as a way to get more for themselves because no one is preventing them. Bad government is a symptom of this fundamental flaw in the human mind.

If there is a solution, it would lie in the possibility that an alien race of greater power and decency than ours exists. Right now, our race still slaughters its own en masse over what an alien race would consider meaningless superstitions and incredibly petty nationalism. If I were them I wouldn't let us off the planet until we grew up. I would like to think that a solution could come with improved economics, but I don't believe it would simply because I don't believe people would allow it. A certain percentage of humans get off on telling other humans what to do. A much larger percentage of humans get off on being told what to do.

A vast majority of humans despises anyone who cannot join in popular tides of emotion: optimism, hope, grief, anguish. "It's my buzz, don't be killing it." A surprising percentage of human thought is designed to help people cope by seeing the world other than it truly is. Hell, the whole hippie movement was dedicated to the idea that we could be better. Some good social side effects came, but ultimately we didn't change--except that one generation became perhaps the most self-absorbed and self-overrating in recent US history. I suppose that was a brief change.

All humans can hope for is to first see the world as it truly is without self-delusion, choose a code of ethics that is purely one's own rather than imposed upon one by others, and live life as ethically and comfortably as one can manage. After all, it is one thing to be a victim of rape. It is another thing to orgasm during rape; that may happen involuntarily. To have authority demand that the victim say that the rape was actually consensual and that one really enjoyed it, that is the ultimate indignity for the victim.