What European city for a couple starting a family? (2009, crime)

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

TOULOUSE.

Toulouse has quite a large British and American expat community as it is hugely popular with people .

I loved my brief visit to Toulouse and long to return.
Several of my kid's friends (who are couples, no kids yet, some French, some not) live there.
Toulouse is so beautiful and has such a nice energy to it.
The Top 5 Euro cities in that Mercer rating system are safe and pretty, but except for Munich, they all were very boring to me, and I am the kind of person who can much amuse myself just about anywhere.
Of course, as you say, actually living someplace is very different from visiting.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

Don't go there, especially if you're a bit on the Conservative side :Toulouse is a dump , believe me, I know the Pink City - Ville Rose-very well, a lot of agressive, drunk bums with German shepherds in the streets, dog crap everywhere ,a huge Arabic population, dangerous suburbs (Labeige, Empalot...), the center as crowded as Paris,a huge chemical factory -AZF- exploded in 9/2001-10 days after 9/11, killing 30 people and shattering glass in the whole city, and now the new Mayor is a Left-winger (a Socialist), it's the only place I've seen with youngsters wearing Satanic t-shirts with a reversed cross with the motto "Bad religion"..

Wow ! Simply wow. I still have family just on the outside of Toulouse and go there regularily as well as having lived there and I don't even recognise a smidgen of your description.

Is there ANYTHING you like about France at all ? Anything at all ?

You are the first person I have met EVER who did not love Toulouse. I have met plenty of people who were not overly fond of Paris but Toulouse , never.

I feel so sorry for you living in a country you loathe and despise so much surroudned by people you seem to only have contempt for.

I wish you all the best in getting out of this hell-hole ( in your opinion ) because nobody should ever be that miserable where they live.

I still refuse to believe that an obviously intelligent and educated person like yourself is unable to find a job /move abroad. There has to be something more to the story than meets the eye.

Life's too short Piegeonhole, get the hell out of your miserable life, you are obviously heading for a very bilious future... If France is such an appalling place why the hell stay there ?

People migrate every year , do yourself a favour and pack up to find the place of your dreams...Really, such a violent antipathy to your place of residence is really not healthy.

Everyone deserves to be happy , at very least content. Why stay somewhere so appallingly awful. Seriously ?

[jaytr]

Thank you all for continuing the discussion of your experiences living in different European cities.

Just a few notes (I will elaborate later in the day)...
It's unfortunate that non-whites face discrimination in Europe--maybe more in rural areas and in cities where there are large, separate ethnic communities? I grew up in a middle-class and very integrated part of Southern California (no, not utopia, but progressive). Although I am white, I've felt the awkwardness and subtle discrimination in visiting other parts of the world where I am the minority. My religious/social values embrace all of humanity, so I hope to bridge gaps.

I've read that many European countries have a low birth rate and provide generous benefits to *citizens* who have children. Well, we're only planning on 2-3 children (God willing), but are open to more.

Government bureaucracy work, especially implementing standards, would be mind-numbing anywhere, I suspect. I prefer private industry work, especially in a smaller, more entrepreneurial setting, even if I have to create my own job--possible to start your own company?

Toulouse sounds very nice. Although I've only spent time in Paris (several times) and all over Provence (twice), I would be very open to other parts of France, and Toulouse' location and amenities would seem to appeal to us--location/proximity to interesting places, pretty in its own right, climate. Most larger cities have their run-down ghettoes--we have no intention of living near these slums. How is the cost-of-living to income to quality-of-life ratio? Housing costs and taxes are a big factor, of course, relating to cost-of-living.

More later... Thanks!

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

it's the only place I've seen with youngsters wearing Satanic t-shirts with a reversed cross with the motto "Bad religion"..

heh
Pigeon, chillax, dude.
Bad Religion is a California punk band.
I walked all over Toulouse's centreville alone and was fine.

[devereaux17]

Climate: Dublin doesn't have a winter really, and the summer well is non-existent. lol, although not as much rain as last

City/Suburbs: we have many green areas and when its sunny its great, its reasonably close to a large city but not all that attractive and it has several ammenities like tennis courts and near the coast, with some great beaches, where i live is where people like bono(hes an idiot) lives, we call it the 'napoli of the north' hahaha

Income-to-Cost-of-Living Ratio: dublin is far far too expensive

Quality of Living: i don't trust these things, i mean frankfurt is a terrible city and it made the list, and also dublin was voted best city to live in the world a while back, LMAO.

its a safe place, there is gang crime but they kill each other and unlike other europe countries its not immigrants but 'native' scumbags.

this is just my opinion on where i live.

[jaytr]

Quick lunch break...

Dublin has intrigued me for years--I've never been to Ireland (only to England and all over Scotland). Are you married and with kids? The country is considered a tax haven and drew lots of immigrants from all over, the economy grew very quickly, and inflation wiped out a lot of the benefits. But now I read that Ireland has been hit pretty hard by the global financial crisis. Is unemployment increasing much and how are housing prices and cost-of-living now? Can a couple starting a family live comfortably in the suburbs (nice, stable, safe neighborhood)? Is it better to live in other cities of Ireland or does Dublin have that (almost) inescapable economic gravitational pull that NYC, Paris and London have? Thanks!

[jaytr]

Toulouse - I like your descriptions. Major university, pretty, well-connected (transportation - local, domestic, international), good economy, interesting and pretty places nearby for roadtrips/weekend getaways. Is cost-of-living affordable for someone with a median income?

Bavaria - I liked Munich, but haven't really spent any real time there for many years. I wonder what cities would be best to live in?

Dublin/Ireland - as in my previous post, I'm curious to hear more about how things are in 2009 for young couples starting families--is it worth it? Are there better cities in Ireland to live (good quality of life and jobs)?

We're willing to live in a quieter city/suburb (maybe even a bit boring, so long as fairly pretty, green and charming). But very important is that we have easy access (within maybe 1 hour to 1.5 hours) to a big city's amenities and attractions. And we love to take daytrips, roadtrips and weekend getaways to cities and countryside/mountains. Examples: we'll drive to Montreal (about 6 hours) for a 3-day weekend and to North Carolina (11 hours) for a 5-day roadtrip.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

Don't go there, especially if you're a bit on the Conservative side :Toulouse is a dump , believe me, I know the Pink City - Ville Rose-very well, a lot of agressive, drunk bums with German shepherds in the streets, dog crap everywhere ,a huge Arabic population, dangerous suburbs (Labeige, Empalot...), the center as crowded as Paris,a huge chemical factory -AZF- exploded in 9/2001-10 days after 9/11, killing 30 people and shattering glass in the whole city, and now the new Mayor is a Left-winger (a Socialist), it's the only place I've seen with youngsters wearing Satanic t-shirts with a reversed cross with the motto "Bad religion"..

I'm glad you posted this one. It helps to size up your bad attitude about many places in Europe. Now I know why.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

TOULOUSE.


Toulouse sounds like quite a good match for your requirements. Lovely city with a vibrant culture, lovely architecture, great museums, art galleries, great shopping, and in a lovely part of France. Perfect for travelling around France, getting to Spain etc...


Toulouse is supposed to have some great schools too ( it is fairly affluent generally speaking) and is a great place for kids.


Toulouse also sounds right in terms of weather for you, hot summers, warm spring and autumn and cold-ish but not really cold winter.


The South-West of France is such a lovely area so Toulouse is a perfect place to be to explore the Dordogne with its wonderful scenery, painted Prehistoric Caves, Medieval fortresses, Chateaux... Gascony , the Mediterranean, The Pyrenees and places like Biarritz and the South Western Beaches.... Pop in to Bordeaux and its vineyards for the day or a week-end skiing in the Pyrenees. Explore the Cathar Castles and enjoy the great Sand Dunes on the way to Biarritz...

Great public transport links ( the TGV, a great airport, motorways and a great network of roads) and easy to get to the rest of Europe very quickly.

Toulouse has quite a large British and American expat community as it is hugely popular with people .

It is a city full of character with a fairly young population ( it has a very good University) and has a wonderful Atmosphere. There are also quite a lot of foreign companies, banks who have settled there.

PM me if you need more info. I am French so might be able to help.

Mooseketer has abundant knowledge of France and is helpful.
Here's an excellent site for information needed to move to France:
Americans in Toulouse - Home

[cunparis]

I live in the suburbs of Paris. I haven't felt much of an urge to live in another european country, I'm not sure why. I think the language thing would be a big challenge. Like starting over again. I think spain & italy are too "latin" so it'd probably be a northern country like Holland or Sweden. But with two young kids it'd be a big challenge: finding housing, work, etc.

If we were to stay in europe it'd probably be in the south of france. The climate is nice, the ocean is near, close to family in Paris, etc. But for the moment I'm just longing to live in the US for a while.

I'm surprised in the tax comparison that France is so much more than the US. I wonder how they're calculating that. In France your employer pays you your salary and also pays roughly the same amount to the government. Then you pay your taxes for your benefits (insurance, unemployment, etc.). Then at the end of the year you pay your taxes. It's quite a lot. But both my wife & I have benefitted from unemployment and we also benefit from the excellent health care which would be expensive in the US. I didn't realize we were really paying 20% more although that's totally possible.

One other thing, if your wife is EU citizen then can't you get the equivalent of a green card and work? In France I do not believe you need an employer sponsored visa if you're married to a French citizen. If you think you can get an employer sponsored visa right now I'd double check. Unemployment is high and jobs are getting more scarce, at least here in France. Everyone is cutting budgets and costs. Companies are hiring people with 2 year degrees to do what was previously done by people with 4 year degrees. It's a very tough situation right now.