How hard would it be (theorhetically) to renounce U.S. citizenship and become a citizen elsewhere?

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by MarcNZ

That's fair enough. I can see where you are coming from. I don't really agree with your assessment, but I can understand the logic.

I just think much of what you have said could apply just as well to somebody moving to a different part of the same country as moving to a new one. If somebody from LA couldn't catch up with the Aussies, then I wouldn't have thought they would be able to catch up if they moved to say San Francisco or NYC. I can understand dougie86's comments about the challenges of losing their networking and social support, but they would lose that just going to a new city too. Wherever somebody goes, they take with them all they have learnt. The knowledge and skills they have aquired are not lost. They will face obstacles but are not really starting completely from scratch again.

Maybe it's a mindset thing. I'm a NZer myself and for us (and I'm including my Aussie brethren in this) the norm is to travel and work abroad for at least a few years (sometimes many years). It's always a challenge, but rarely seen as a negative. The path for a typical NZer or Aussie I would say is to go to university, then work for a couple of years and then head out into the world for an indeterminate period of time. Then anywhere from 1 to 20 years later (or maybe never) return to NZ/Aus to settle down. When I first finished my undergraduate degree and started going to job interviews I was asked several times how long I was planning to stay with the company before leaving overseas. It's just an expectation that people have here.

I've spent several years of my life living in various countries so far and will be moving to the US around the end of this year. I suppose that my friends who have stayed put in a single place have accumulated more money than me. But for me personally, my experiences of travel and living in various countries is more valuable to me than the size of my bank account. Maybe in a few years if I have children, I might have a different perspective, but right now I certainly don't think of my friends who have more money, but limited experiences as being far ahead of me in life. I guess it all depends how each person prioritises things.

A marc, I think we would be great friends in real life and you hit the nail on the head wit the hammer. You can see the world but be poor or you can stay home an d be rich. The main difference is that I understand american and US culture, I don't understand Aussie culture. An american from LA can move to NYC no problemo because same culutre-generally except attitudes, but selling a house in LA and buying one in NYC no problem. You can still find all the same stuff, business is still done the same. I may not have described it good, but I can say that I have moved in Canada and it never hurt, in fact it often moved me ahead, not true if you do so to a different culture.

new zelandaers have a typical island mindset, go some wherelese get rich and go back home to paradise and enjoy it. To me Canada is not great weather wise, but Ill make money in USA and go back because its beter to live in for me.
I don't know, to me i'd only move away if I could make alot more money by doing it. I been to europe and don't buy its "better culture non sense". I would not live in any country besides USA or canada permenatly. Maybe australia but I keep hearing bad things about it (racism), lower pay, but I still think its a nice place to at least visit.

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

It depends on your perspective and priorities. It's the best country for certain types of people; for other types, not so much. It depends on the person.

America is the best country becuase it is the freest country. You can be gay, black, white, indian, doesn't really matter anything is possible. Not true in many other countrys. There is a place for everyone provided they try. You can live in alaska, hawaii, the south pacific, the carribean, or florida or new york. You can be an activist, a millionaire, a bum, a prisoner, you can be a drug user and become president, hell you can be a murderer and and become first lady. You can be a religious fanatic or an athiest.

Anything is possible here, you can just do anything, and I don't think that is really possible in other countrys.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by jungeon

America is the best country becuase it is the freest country. You can be gay, black, white, indian, doesn't really matter anything is possible. Not true in many other countrys. There is a place for everyone provided they try. You can live in alaska, hawaii, the south pacific, the carribean, or florida or new york. You can be an activist, a millionaire, a bum, a prisoner, you can be a drug user and become president, hell you can be a murderer and and become first lady. You can be a religious fanatic or an athiest.

Anything is possible here, you can just do anything, and I don't think that is really possible in other countrys.

Wow, Fox news is more succesful than we ever could imagine...

1. How hard would it be to renounce US citizenship?
= Easy. Say "I don't want to be a US citizen any more" to a government official. (If it really is this easy, I don't know, but that's what it's been said.)

2. How hard would it be to become a citizen elsewhere? (Primarily Canada, NZ or Australia)
= Easier than becoming a US citizen, but still in no sense easy.

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by jungeon

America is the best country becuase it is the freest country. You can be gay, black, white, indian, doesn't really matter anything is possible. Not true in many other countrys. There is a place for everyone provided they try. You can live in alaska, hawaii, the south pacific, the carribean, or florida or new york. You can be an activist, a millionaire, a bum, a prisoner, you can be a drug user and become president, hell you can be a murderer and and become first lady. You can be a religious fanatic or an athiest.

Anything is possible here, you can just do anything, and I don't think that is really possible in other countrys.

The US is just one of many "free" countries, but each of those countries are different and have different freedoms. To claim that the US is the best country in the world is rather arrogant and I'm sure that just as many people would disagree with you as agree with you.

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by BCreass

The US is just one of many "free" countries, but each of those countries are different and have different freedoms. To claim that the US is the best country in the world is rather arrogant and I'm sure that just as many people would disagree with you as agree with you.

Agreed. Personally, I would really like to be away from some the things that many United Statsians call 'freedom,' which is in reality a huge millstone upon the shoulders. I'm all for free agency (very much so), but somewhere along the line, some rather bizarre things got labeled as freedom in this country.

The average person in the average country is no more enslaved than the average person in the United States. There are exceptions, of course. But the notion in the United States that the rest of the world is full of enslaved and miserable people is just not true in general.

[jungeon]

The rest of the world is not miserable but many people only care if they can home, get drunk, have sex find women and hang out with friends, as long as they can do this they are happy, they don't care if the police can force them to take a breathlyzer or if they live in a police state like france or canada.

At least in america you can own guns and if the government ever gets too bad we can always overthrow. You cannot do that in france or england where guns are banned. Those people have no freedom and dont care

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by jungeon

The rest of the world is not miserable but many people only care if they can home, get drunk, have sex find women and hang out with friends, as long as they can do this they are happy, they don't care if the police can force them to take a breathlyzer or if they live in a police state like france or canada.

At least in america you can own guns and if the government ever gets too bad we can always overthrow. You cannot do that in france or england where guns are banned. Those people have no freedom and dont care

I doubt they'd consider it a lack of freedom, since most people in those countries don't want guns (if they did, they'd take to the streets, because they're not as afraid of their governments as we are of ours). Also, they enjoy freedoms that we don't; for example, the knowledge that if they get sick, they won't have to worry about going bankrupt through medical bills and they live in societies with far less gun crime, so there isn't such a need for mass gun ownership.

Also, why do you consider it a problem to have the police take random breath tests? Drunk driving kills and drunk driving statistics in European nations are way better than ours. I tend to put human life ahead of that particular so-called "freedom". Neither Canada or France are "police states", by the way.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by jungeon

At least in america you can own guns and if the government ever gets too bad we can always overthrow. You cannot do that in france or england where guns are banned. Those people have no freedom and dont care

Well... In other countries in the "free world" people don't overthrow their governments through violence, but rather through something called "elections" and "democracy".
Maybe something to consider, I don't know...

(And, on a side note, the US does not rank "the most free country in the world" in UN ratings. Actually, what do you know, a so-called police state called Sweden ranks 1, followed by other so-called police states such as UK and France... Hm, who could have imagined...)

[Cornerguy1]

Well, this one has sort of left the OP way behind, hasn't it?

Time to move on and save the "US vs the Rest" debate for some other time.