chaos in South Africa (2010, low crime, credit)

[arctichomesteader]

Well that's the best way I can describe it. It's a Zimbabwe without the media attention. I've always advocated for the right to keep and bear arms, but I hope things never come to what's going on in SA, apartheid was bad but the ANC has ruined that country:

South Africa World Cup 2010... and the shooting's already started | Mail Online

[wanneroo]

Excellent article. It's a shame the best and brightest get chased out of there own country. All credit to those who stay and fight for their property and lives.

I was always surprised South Africa won the world cup as the crime is out of sight. I imagine there is going to be a field day attacking tourists in droves.

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Well that's the best way I can describe it. It's a Zimbabwe without the media attention. I've always advocated for the right to keep and bear arms, but I hope things never come to what's going on in SA, apartheid was bad but the ANC has ruined that country:

South Africa World Cup 2010... and the shooting's already started | Mail Online

ONLY 70 MILES. Gee imagine the bs that could be going only 70 MILES from anywhere. Only 70 miles from the white house someone is probably being raped, murdered, maimed. Typical british media to hype of everything. Its kind of funny how countries like south africa get portrayed as crime heaveans, which I am not saying it is or is not when a crime happens there, but when crimes happen in britain its a criminals problem not Britain is a crime haven..

This is also a very racist article coming out of britain the country who made south africa the "crime country it is".
Yes apartheid was so much better, you could get killed by the government and thrown in prison for no reason. The country was already ruined when Mendella took power and he took it from the ashes and brought it into the 21st century.

Its also funny this article says 18,000 people are murdered yet its focus is on the poor white farmer who have been victimed by the evil black man even though by its own admissions they are a very small person of crime victims.

Lets talk honestly hear, this is not about race from the black perspective, its about theft. Whites who came here during colonization stole land. Does it make it right to kill them, no, but it doesn't make it right for them to keep stolen land either. They and their parents used the same methods-murder and fear to remove black land owners, so I guess you could say its karma. I can tell you that there are many african countries who want white people to come as investors and will not harm them even if they build farms. What africans dislike are the whites who came here and stole land at gun point then turn around and say look at those black thieves trying to get whats their's.

I don't really see anything wrong with what goes on in zimbabwe, whats the point of living in a country where foriegners control 90% of the resources. i think Mugabe was right and it was necessary. If the man buys the land he can stay, but those who came and stole during "The scramble for africa" need to go home. Its ridiculous to think that black africans, the vicitms of colonization should pay for these colonizers to leave. Britain put them there and can pay for them if they want, but they must leave.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by jungeon

ONLY 70 MILES. Gee imagine the bs that could be going only 70 MILES from anywhere. Only 70 miles from the white house someone is probably being raped, murdered, maimed. Typical british media to hype of everything. Its kind of funny how countries like south africa get portrayed as crime heaveans, which I am not saying it is or is not when a crime happens there, but when crimes happen in britain its a criminals problem not Britain is a crime haven..

Actually the entire country is plagued by one of the worst violent crime rates in the world. Britain has crime problems but nothing approaching SA. 70 miles isn't really that far either anyways, especially these days with planes, helicopters, and so forth.

This is also a very racist article coming out of britain the country who made south africa the "crime country it is".
Yes apartheid was so much better, you could get killed by the government and thrown in prison for no reason. The country was already ruined when Mendella took power and he took it from the ashes and brought it into the 21st century.

The article wasn't saying it was better although certain things were better. Crime was lower and the economy was in far better shape previously. It was a well developed country for Africa, growing, stable, safe. That is no excuse for the apartheid of course (although some of the claims about apartheid have been inflated) but the apartheid is no excuse for the present disaster. Apartheid could have been ended without putting an extremist, violent group in power. SA is currently collapsing, Mandela and his racist, violent, communist ANC destroyed the country and grew very wealthy and powerful in the process too BTW. Britain definately made a mess in many ways, but it did leave a country that was a bread basket, with developed infrastructure, low crime rates, and a stable and effective government that at least maintained order (although with a very bad side as well for all that good of preventing anarchy).

Its also funny this article says 18,000 people are murdered yet its focus is on the poor white farmer who have been victimed by the evil black man even though by its own admissions they are a very small person of crime victims.

This article is focusing on one of the problems, one of the groups, not all of them. The fact remains there are armed groups targetting White farmers and terrorizing them and killing them because of their race. That's an attempt at ethnic cleansing. Once SA has an effective, efficient, and non-racist government these problems can be fixed. Until then, it's sheer chaos with the only order coming from armed militias. Not a good situation.

Lets talk honestly hear, this is not about race from the black perspective, its about theft. Whites who came here during colonization stole land. Does it make it right to kill them, no, but it doesn't make it right for them to keep stolen land either. They and their parents used the same methods-murder and fear to remove black land owners, so I guess you could say its karma. I can tell you that there are many african countries who want white people to come as investors and will not harm them even if they build farms. What africans dislike are the whites who came here and stole land at gun point then turn around and say look at those black thieves trying to get whats their's.

Actually the current Blacks (or most of them anyways) in SA stole land from the aboriginals and are no different than the current White inhabitants. They have no greater claim than the Whites. The only Blacks who have a stronger claim than the rest are the remaining Khoisan, who were practically eliminated centuries ago by other Blacks who moved South in search of better land (Bantu, etc.). That happened all over Africa and the entire world. That is human history. One group needs land or resources and pushes another group out, and that pushed out group pushes someone else out elsewhere, and so forth. Not one single human on this earth can claim his or her ancestors did not steal land from others. Instead of dwelling on events centuries ago I suggest you focus on the present. The Whites alive today did not steal the land, they lawfully acquired it through purchasing or inheriting it. Just as most of the Blacks in SA today did not steal land from the Khoisan. My ancestors' farm in VT, which they carved out of the wilderness in the 1700's while Vermont was still a country and a frontier, ancestors who fought the British for independence, had to be sold off and was subdivided years ago because of the newcomers to VT who rose property taxes, regulations, etc., to the point where it couldn't be kept in business. But I'm not going over there demanding all those people whose homes are on what could be my land today, give it back. Time goes on, move on. All of human history is the change in ownership of land.

I don't really see anything wrong with what goes on in zimbabwe, whats the point of living in a country where foriegners control 90% of the resources. i think Mugabe was right and it was necessary. If the man buys the land he can stay, but those who came and stole during "The scramble for africa" need to go home. Its ridiculous to think that black africans, the vicitms of colonization should pay for these colonizers to leave. Britain put them there and can pay for them if they want, but they must leave.

Really? That either screams ignorance or a very disturbing position in support of something the likes of what Stalin or Mao did. Mugabe is stealing land and giving it to his cronies, not the people, and generally not people qualified to run farms. The majority of the people have been locked out of the land by Mugabe worse than under the Whites, and now don't even have jobs or food. Zimbabwe is starving. He sends armed thugs to brutally attack and kill not just the Whites but other Blacks as well who do not support him (frequently the Blacks who once had stable employment under White farmers now with no jobs, no land, and starving). Recently Zimbabwe has actually asked some Whites to return because the people are starving, and have literally nothing. Their hyperinflated money is worthless. Mugabe seizes aid for the people that comes from abroad and uses it to wage power or enrich himself further. The latest elections were stolen by Mugabe and he was widely condemned by the world. I do not see how anyone can justify the crimes taking place there. And the Whites were not foreigners, they were born and raised there. They had as much right to live there as any person.

No one who took part in what you call the "scramble for Africa" is still alive today. Fact in law that you can't blame the children of people responsible for something for it. There were a few criminals in my family's past, centuries ago, but legally I can't be held responsible for them. And as pointed out above, most of the current Blacks in SA have no greater claim to the land than the descendants of Whites who arrived centuries ago. They do not have to leave. Learn to coexist if you want peace and prosperity. You sound bitter and hateful, and racist, that's not a good way to live. You will find yourself happier if you don't carry hatred around and make an effort to treat all people with respect. Are you from South Africa?

[wanneroo]

Brilliant post arctichomesteader.

South Africa has much potential and on the other hand if the lawlessness continues it will be a bankrupt, corrupt(part way there), dessicated country solely dependent on foreign aid and other vultures.

You can't have a prosperous, vibrant society with that volume of violence onboard.

[MarcNZ]

Originally Posted by jungeon

I don't really see anything wrong with what goes on in zimbabwe... i think Mugabe was right and it was necessary

!!!! !!!!

I'm glad arctichomesteader was able to respond because I find an opinion like this so incredibly bizarre that I wasn't really sure how to even begin addressing it. You either have no real understanding about the situation in Zimbabwe, or you have such a twisted view of morality that I don't believe anything anybody could say here would get through to you anyway. I'm shocked by such an attitude.

[Shizzles]

Originally Posted by jungeon

ONLY 70 MILES. Gee imagine the bs that could be going only 70 MILES from anywhere. Only 70 miles from the white house someone is probably being raped, murdered, maimed. Typical british media to hype of everything. Its kind of funny how countries like south africa get portrayed as crime heaveans, which I am not saying it is or is not when a crime happens there, but when crimes happen in britain its a criminals problem not Britain is a crime haven..

This is also a very racist article coming out of britain the country who made south africa the "crime country it is".
Yes apartheid was so much better, you could get killed by the government and thrown in prison for no reason. The country was already ruined when Mendella took power and he took it from the ashes and brought it into the 21st century.

Its also funny this article says 18,000 people are murdered yet its focus is on the poor white farmer who have been victimed by the evil black man even though by its own admissions they are a very small person of crime victims.

Lets talk honestly hear, this is not about race from the black perspective, its about theft. Whites who came here during colonization stole land. Does it make it right to kill them, no, but it doesn't make it right for them to keep stolen land either. They and their parents used the same methods-murder and fear to remove black land owners, so I guess you could say its karma. I can tell you that there are many african countries who want white people to come as investors and will not harm them even if they build farms. What africans dislike are the whites who came here and stole land at gun point then turn around and say look at those black thieves trying to get whats their's.

I don't really see anything wrong with what goes on in zimbabwe, whats the point of living in a country where foriegners control 90% of the resources. i think Mugabe was right and it was necessary. If the man buys the land he can stay, but those who came and stole during "The scramble for africa" need to go home. Its ridiculous to think that black africans, the vicitms of colonization should pay for these colonizers to leave. Britain put them there and can pay for them if they want, but they must leave.

Raping and murdering people is wrong. I find it highly ironic you don't like the idea of whites in Africa, but you sure did pick a pretty white country to flee to yourself. Hypocracy?

No one here will argue colonialism is wrong, but the way reforms are being done now is totally out of line. Yes, Black people should own the majority of the land and have control of their own destiny, but there are better ways of achieving that goal. It's a shame Mandela's dream is slowly being unraveled.

[Dr. Foosball]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

Raping and murdering people is wrong. I find it highly ironic you don't like the idea of whites in Africa, but you sure did pick a pretty white country to flee to yourself. Hypocracy?

No one here will argue colonialism is wrong.

Post of the Day.

I think there is still a chance that the United States can get the 2010 World Cup the way things are going in South Africa.

[jungeon]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

Raping and murdering people is wrong. I find it highly ironic you don't like the idea of whites in Africa, but you sure did pick a pretty white country to flee to yourself. Hypocracy?

No one here will argue colonialism is wrong, but the way reforms are being done now is totally out of line. Yes, Black people should own the majority of the land and have control of their own destiny, but there are better ways of achieving that goal. It's a shame Mandela's dream is slowly being unraveled.

I have nothing against whites in africa who come legally and don't steal land. If 1 million white americans were to move to my country, and I was president, I would welcome them. Its not about them being white, its about them being colonizers who stole land and must go.

i willa rgue colonialism is wrong. What you should say is no white man who benefitted from colonialism will argue it is wrong because he got rich off it. There are plenty of white people from east europe who got just as screwed as the rest of the world from britain france and western european colonization. What idiot think colonilism is right. If these black criminals were saying they were colonizing the whites in sa then that makes it right under your logic. You must have a huge ignorance of colonization. The French killed 1 million people in 1 year in my country and thats not wrong in your sick perverted mind? Yet killing of 1 white man is the lowest of the low crime. Moderator cut: personal attack removed Killing indians in the second largest genocide and clalling it colonization is right in your mind. Wiping out contients like australia is not wrong in your mind. Enslaving millions of people and kidnapping them is not wrong in your mind. What moral basis do you stand on here. Japanese colonization and occupation of China is a ok. Colonization is great until you get a taste and thats what hitler did to the rest of europe. Once the french, belgium, and english got a taste of their own medicine, being controlled by a foriegner didn't seem so cool.

You tell me, what should happen to the white farmers. Whites are still the richest their, why should poor landless black people who are the victim of 100 years of ethnic cleansing, countless roberrs and rape at the hands of the british and boers, why should they borrow money from future generatiions to pay someone to leave who they never wanted in the first place. Let england pay, they put them there.

[Shizzles]

Originally Posted by jungeon

I have nothing against whites in africa who come legally and don't steal land. If 1 million white americans were to move to my country, and I was president, I would welcome them. Its not about them being white, its about them being colonizers who stole land and must go.

i willa rgue colonialism is wrong. What you should say is no white man who benefitted from colonialism will argue it is wrong because he got rich off it. There are plenty of white people from east europe who got just as screwed as the rest of the world from britain france and western european colonization. What idiot think colonilism is right. If these black criminals were saying they were colonizing the whites in sa then that makes it right under your logic. You must have a huge ignorance of colonization. The French killed 1 million people in 1 year in my country and thats not wrong in your sick perverted mind? Yet killing of 1 white man is the lowest of the low crime. You sir are a racist. Killing indians in the second largest genocide and clalling it colonization is right in your mind. Wiping out contients like australia is not wrong in your mind. Enslaving millions of people and kidnapping them is not wrong in your mind. What moral basis do you stand on here. Japanese colonization and occupation of China is a ok. Colonization is great until you get a taste and thats what hitler did to the rest of europe. Once the french, belgium, and english got a taste of their own medicine, being controlled by a foriegner didn't seem so cool.

You tell me, what should happen to the white farmers. Whites are still the richest their, why should poor landless black people who are the victim of 100 years of ethnic cleansing, countless roberrs and rape at the hands of the british and boers, why should they borrow money from future generatiions to pay someone to leave who they never wanted in the first place. Let england pay, they put them there.

First off, "Wrong" shoudla been "Right". Don't get messed up on words.

Second, does two wrongs make a right?