England vs Stockholm vs Amsterdam vs Tokyo (crime, schools)

[poxonyou]

Originally Posted by NihonKitty

Tokyo receives only a little bit and in some cases less rain (I.E. Miami) than southeastern US cities, and around 5-10 inches more than Northeast US cities.

I'm from Florida myself. Overall, it does rain more in Tokyo and you feel it. Florida has heavy showers that often stop after an hour, with bright sun light following, Tokyo does sometimes in the summer, but mostly it's the depressing, all day/multi-day rain. Tokyo receives 1,466mm of precipitation/year. Orlando receives 1280mm. Seattle 1380mm. London 611mm. Stockholm 539mm, about a third of Tokyo.

Originally Posted by NihonKitty

Schools is no comparison, Japanese schools are better than american schools (not universities). Even the high school near where i live (in orlando) had a murder last year, some kid stabbed the other kid with a knife during class (university high school and apparently there was another murder 5 years ago as well), and theres always drugs being found. In tokyo as you probably know, if one kid is found with drugs it makes the city news for a few days LOL.

Well, not really arguing that US schools overall are great. I just know there are bad schools in Japan and it's a myth the students are super disciplined geniuses. I think the students pushed hard by their parents who study in jukus (cram schools) make up for much of where other students are lacking. I am glad there are few drugs here, but there certainly is violence in weaker schools. I've seen quite a bit of it first hand. I imagine my children may have a better educational experience overall in Sweden, but I need to look into that more. Have no idea about Amsterdam, so Tokyo would be 2nd and the US 3rd unless I became rich and could put them into elite US schools (ha).

It seems like your biggest problems with Tokyo are, #1 you don't speak the language (and being in Japan this is a huge deal as you know, learn japanese if you want to live in Japan and be sane

Not really. I know enough, but the problem to really break through is in my doubts about how long I'll stay here and what I could do with that knowledge of Japanese later if I were to leave. I feel I could be using that time to do other things with my life. I am trying to find a positive that overcomes my uncertainty, such as my interest in Japanese entertainment, that I would better appreciate if closer to fluent.

If you're leaving tokyo, and you want a city with reasonable crime rate (none in US will match Japans crime rate), good income equality, healthcare etc then i would recomend Zurich and Copenhagen

Yeah. I've seen a lot of those surveys. Denmark usually ranks high, but Sweden is close behind. The problem with Denmark is their insanely tight immigration policy. I've heard mixed things about Switzerland, living there as a foreigner. May be great if you're Swiss, but problematic otherwise, and their immigration policies are even harsher. Sweden is more laxed and ranks up there with them.

If you're not a big city person and you want the suburbs (more relaxing etc) then definately move to the USA. Though you won't have any public transit at all, and your healthcare will be like 5x as much as in Japan, and you need to have good locks on your door

You're not making a good case here for the US at all, ha. Only 2 reasons I have to move back are family and fitting in. I grew up American, know American pop culture, common jokes, references, behavior, etc. I move anywhere else and these things are much different and I have to learn fresh.

Also Japan is probably the easiest country in the developed world to be a vegetarian (everyone can survive with just noodles, rice with toppings, tofu actually alot of vegetarian meals are based off of japanese food etc etc) so bad luck for you, at least the USA is all about meat meat and more meat.

Well, almost all Japanese food has fish flavoring of some sort added. That's the main problem. There are all tofu restaurants, but a majority of the dishes are flavored with fish dashi. It's not as great as it seems. Many US restaurants have a vegetarian section, in Japan I have to ask about each item individually. I've lived here 3 years and was vegetarian for many years in the US and the US wins, at least where I grew up...maybe not so much in the country-side. There are some soy based products available at the super market though that are cheaper than they are in the US. Kyoto has a reputation here of being a bit boring (to live in, not visit), lacking in jobs, and overly tourist oriented. I visited it and could see that.

[poxonyou]

this is one of my main worries about Sweden, up there with the winters:

International Author Finds Life In Stockholm Boring

Thirty years ago only a very few pubs and cafes existed in Stockholm. Though they mushroomed in the recent years, the culture of "meeting people" in them is yet to come.

After one year of living in Cambridge, Massachussetts, I had hundreds of names in my address book; after seven years in Canada, roughly a hundred. After thirty years in Stockholm, I have only ten phone numbers, in my address book

One can meet many people on the beaches of the Medterannean or in the pubs and cafes of Berlin or in any eastern European city or in any American city, or in the trains of Italy or Spain or Turkey or Greece... This does not happen in Stockholm. The life is dull and boring in Stockholm.

Tokyo isn't that much different though. People keep to themselves in public and meet friends through school, work, or other friends, but not at random. Tokyo clubs are insanely loud, expensive and most of the people gather around the DJ area like people watch rock bands rather than dance in a social manner.

[BigSwede]

Originally Posted by poxonyou

this is one of my main worries about Sweden, up there with the winters:

Tokyo isn't that much different though. People keep to themselves in public and meet friends through school, work, or other friends, but not at random. Tokyo clubs are insanely loud, expensive and most of the people gather around the DJ area like people watch rock bands rather than dance in a social manner.

I hope you don't base your decision on one authors opinions.I think PalmBch is closer to the truth.
It's not more difficult to learn to know people here than anywhere else.

[PalmBch]

Originally Posted by poxonyou

this is one of my main worries about Sweden, up there with the winters:

Tokyo isn't that much different though. People keep to themselves in public and meet friends through school, work, or other friends, but not at random. Tokyo clubs are insanely loud, expensive and most of the people gather around the DJ area like people watch rock bands rather than dance in a social manner.

That's not true about boring in Sthlm.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by azoria

You're going to have to have a job, and the requisite residency work permits/visas to live in any of the places you listed. Those will be the most serious hurdles, not the weather or public transportation.

I second that, you may do some research first. You think Danish immiration is strict? Have you checked whether you qualify for any of the mentioned countries (other than the knowledge that a former classmate managed to get a job in Sweden)?

Not wanting to destroy dreams, but I have seen already quite a few threads here from people that clearly underestimated EU immigration restrictions.

[NihonKitty]

Originally Posted by poxonyou

I'm from Florida myself. Overall, it does rain more in Tokyo and you feel it. Florida has heavy showers that often stop after an hour, with bright sun light following, Tokyo does sometimes in the summer, but mostly it's the depressing, all day/multi-day rain. Tokyo receives 1,466mm of precipitation/year. Orlando receives 1280mm. Seattle 1380mm. London 611mm. Stockholm 539mm, about a third of Tokyo.

And basically all of the rain in tokyo occurs during 2 months (late spring early summer). It is the rainy season, so you are making it much worse than it seems.

Well, not really arguing that US schools overall are great. I just know there are bad schools in Japan and it's a myth the students are super disciplined geniuses. I think the students pushed hard by their parents who study in jukus (cram schools) make up for much of where other students are lacking. I am glad there are few drugs here, but there certainly is violence in weaker schools. I've seen quite a bit of it first hand. I imagine my children may have a better educational experience overall in Sweden, but I need to look into that more. Have no idea about Amsterdam, so Tokyo would be 2nd and the US 3rd unless I became rich and could put them into elite US schools (ha).

In the developed world grade 1 until high school Japanese schools and students score among the highest. Every country in the world has bad schools, the only difference is compare japans worst of the worst schools to americas worst of the worst or swedens worst of the worst. I have read about swedish "bad" schools mostly muslim immigrants that do poorly..other then that i can't comment on sweden but US-Japan is no comparison and Japan wins handsdown. For universities USA wins handsdown.

Not really. I know enough, but the problem to really break through is in my doubts about how long I'll stay here and what I could do with that knowledge of Japanese later if I were to leave. I feel I could be using that time to do other things with my life. I am trying to find a positive that overcomes my uncertainty, such as my interest in Japanese entertainment, that I would better appreciate if closer to fluent.

Why are you even in Japan?

Yeah. I've seen a lot of those surveys. Denmark usually ranks high, but Sweden is close behind. The problem with Denmark is their insanely tight immigration policy. I've heard mixed things about Switzerland, living there as a foreigner. May be great if you're Swiss, but problematic otherwise, and their immigration policies are even harsher. Sweden is more laxed and ranks up there with them.

Scandinavia and Japan are probably the 2 most similar regions in the developed world (income equality, crime, atheism etc)

You're not making a good case here for the US at all, ha. Only 2 reasons I have to move back are family and fitting in. I grew up American, know American pop culture, common jokes, references, behavior, etc. I move anywhere else and these things are much different and I have to learn fresh.

Well if you're american obviously you have more reasons to move to the US. But in general the major Pros for the US compared to Japan are bigger space, and you feel like you have more "freedoms" (suburban lifestyle). But at the same time I also find the suburban lifestyle the most boring thing in the world, and I wish i was back in Osaka...

Well, almost all Japanese food has fish flavoring of some sort added. That's the main problem. There are all tofu restaurants, but a majority of the dishes are flavored with fish dashi. It's not as great as it seems. Many US restaurants have a vegetarian section, in Japan I have to ask about each item individually. I've lived here 3 years and was vegetarian for many years in the US and the US wins, at least where I grew up...maybe not so much in the country-side. There are some soy based products available at the super market though that are cheaper than they are in the US. Kyoto has a reputation here of being a bit boring (to live in, not visit), lacking in jobs, and overly tourist oriented. I visited it and could see that.

If you find tokyo boring i can only say #1 you have a boring group of friends or #2 it's your lack of knowledge of Japanese, or #3 tokyo is just too busy and the culture is too different. I find the US the most boring place ever...at least the suburbs. I'm sure NYC would be fine for me though. If you don't like the tokyo lifestyle which I DONT and I am japanese, then try Osaka. People are more talkative/fun etc, while tokyo is busy and too polite at times.

As for vegetarian food, I still can't agree with you at all. You can just eat rice and noodles and tofu in japan every day all day forever. For example, morning = rice + soup (common in japan) or bread. Lunch = udon or yakisoba etc dinner can be Vegetarian okonomiyaki etc. When i lived in Japan I ate red meat maybe once every 2 weeks. And fish maybe 3 times a week. Many days I never had fish or red meat at all ever. Here in America Its impossible for me to eat anything without meat, unless I want to eat greasy fries and cheese etc all day. Exception of course is if I cook myself, I am mostly talking about eating out.

Since you seem like a very strong vegetarian (fish seasonings are no good for you) then Its harder but I still won't agree that US is better for vegetarians. Japanese actually consume the lowest amount of meat in the developed world (at least red meat). You should try an Okinawan diet that is almost ENTIRELY vegetarian.

[poxonyou]

I've heard Osakans are more out going and easier to make friends with. I figure it could be a myth, but who knows? I have quite a lot of "acquaintances", but few I could consider true friends. It feels as if friendships are built in a manner that puts me in a disadvantage here unless I were to work in a Japanese company or go back to school.

Well, I had studied Japanese for a few years, put all my effort into coming here, and just found social life to be unusually, unbearably difficult, and I've seen this to be true of foreign coworkers and friends I've met who do speak Japanese well. This has killed my motivation to learn Japanese. This may be a Tokyo thing.

I absolutely agree with you in regards to American suburbia. I found it incredibly boring. I am angry that America was designed in this poor manner. People like to brag about their big yards, but it's just boring and requires people to have cars, adding more complications and stress to life. I didn't feel like I was missing anything when I visited back home for vacation. If I had to chose between life in the US or Japan, at this point, I'd probably stay with Japan. I'm quite worried about the future of the US. The government seems hopelessly corrupt no matter who is in power and the problems just continue to get worse. Meanwhile, unemployment, the highest sine WWII, is just 5.7% here, compared to 10%+ in much of the US. We also have government healthcare (costing me less than a fourth what I was paying in the US) and one of the lowest gaps between rich and poor in the world. SO I understand where you're coming from in that regard. I'm more interested in comparing my possibilities in Europe.

Moving anywhere is extremely difficult (I know that from trying to come here), and some places almost impossible. Like I'm not even going to bother considering Switzerland or Denmark, but Sweden has recently relaxed its immigration policies. They're not known for being as strict at least for college educated US residents, same for the UK.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by PalmBch

Swedish is very easy to learn, it's germanic as English, Dutch, German. Very similar to Norwegian and Danish. You read it as it is spelled.

Oh, you need to come and listen to us Smålänningar... Spelling? Noooo... Skip a few letters here and there... replace the r's with l's...
Though, around my area, people do spell like they speak... Ok, maybe you were right then.


I admit, I voted for England. I know, I know, I was born and somewhat raised in Stockholm, I should love it, and do... But my heart belongs in London.


Most things said about Stockholm here already is true. So no need for me to go on about it any more than that. Would just like to add that it does indeed seem easier for educated people (non-EU/Nordic citizens) to get a work permit in Sweden, than perhaps the other countries listed. I know several Americans who have gotten jobs here (all sorts of jobs/trades, not just teaching) on just bachelors or even less.
From my understanding, reading on other parts of CD, it might not be as easy to migrate as a non-EU citizen to say England or The Netherlands (have no clue/guess on Japan, unfortunately).

For natural reasons, I don't really know much about living in other EU countries, so I can't say that life is easier/harder/more exciting/boring in Sweden in comparison to say England or the Netherlands. Travelling isn't expensive in my opinion (Ryanair is a very, very inexpensive choice), and eventhough the Scandinavian countries do indeed have higher costs of living, we're also paid better, so for us it isn't that expensive.
Pretty much the same (percentage wise) as for other comparable countries. (Plus the huge advantage, that when travelling abroad, you have more money to spend than the average tourist from other countries...)

The only disadvantage I could come up with about moving to Sweden would be learning the language. It is considered a difficult language to learn, but really, it isn't much harder than any other when learning it though immersion. Plus, most people do speak English and pretty well (just maybe not if you come up to them unexpected, when they're not prepared to speak anything but Swedish, and ask them for directions or whatnot. Trust me on this, I speak from personal experience...).

Actually, just learn the correct usage of "Lagom", and people will love you eventhough that's the only word you know (again, personal knowledge - I know an American who lived here for 2 1/2 years, only learnt that one word, and got away with it).

[NihonKitty]

^ do you really need to learn swedish? I heard scandinavians can all speak english.

[poxonyou]

NihonKitty: another factor in perhaps our different experiences I think is I think foreign women seem much more sought after by Japanese men, of course, and women. It seems there are many more foreign men here and very few foreign women. The lady friends and coworkers I've met seem to pick up new friends and get hit on all the time. Only way guys experience that is from older women in language schools and Roppongi, again usually older women compared to women in Shibuya and Shinjuku clubs.