Why do so many Americans hate French people? (to live in, horse)

[jimhcom]

Originally Posted by Brooklynite

One of the reasons Americans hate the French so much is because after WWII the French did their own thing and opted to practically kick out the Americans from its sovereign territory, instead of becoming the "eternally grateful" colony the US had hoped for. "Sorry mon ami, no military bases in my country pour vouz".

Moreover, the Americans hate the French out of envy because the French have a culture & civilization that pre-dates Americas by CENTURIES.

Another reason is that when the USA gets all fascist and starts invading other countries on flimsy pretexts (think Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc etc etc) the French sometimes criticize it, instead of automatically rubber-stamping its approval ..like England always does.

Another reason is that Americans have a very poorly developed idea of foreign cultures & history ..and the French hate ignorant people.

More envy; maybe its because the French have excellent table manners and the Americans on the other hand are mostly slobs.

Americans also hate the French because French woman are extremely more attractive, feminine, well-groomed and infinitely more sensual than American 'woman'.

Americans hate the French because they were smart enough to haul tail out of Vietnam alot faster than the US was.

Americans hate the French because they can't understand WTH they're saying. Actually, Americans hate anyone who doesn't speak English anyway.

Americans hate the French becasue France has done a MUCH better job of assimilating its black population than the US has.

I could go on & on but basically Americans hatred of France boils down to:

1) Envy
2) Envy
3) some possible envy

I don,t believe Americans hate the French, I would compare the relationship more to sibling rivalry. France was instamental in our gaining our indepedence from G.B. The 2 countries have much in common and share a history of revolution. Americans definatly do not envy the French and are extremly proud of their country. It is true that some Americans feel that France is ungrateful for the fact that the only reason they do not speak German today is due to our soldiers dying on their soil, and feel that many more U.S. solders died than would have, if France had stood and fought instead of colaberating.
The French can be conceeded and feel that their opinion should carry more weight than it does. I believe most americans view France as a braty little sister which we always have to protect, is kind of a pain in the ass, and is never grateful.

[Visvaldis]

Seems like this thread keeps getting stuck like glue to World War 2.

[Moth]

Can anyone name any American intellectuals?

Welll...duhh...let me think for a...duhh...moment.

William F. Buckley, Martin Luther King Jr, Frank L Wright, Mark Twain, Milton Friedman, Frank Gehry, Martin Scorecese, Thomas Jefferson, Dean Acheson, Maya Angelou, Bob Dylan, Hal Hartley, Andy Warhol, Thomas Sowell, Kurt Vonnegut, Alan Ginsburgh, Norman Mailer, Frank Zappa, etc....etc...ad infinitum.

I would answer the rest of that inane post, but if anyone need ask such questions, there is no point.

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by Moth

Welll...duhh...let me think for a...duhh...moment.

William F. Buckley, Martin Luther King Jr, Frank L Wright, Mark Twain, Milton Friedman, Frank Gehry, Martin Scorecese, Thomas Jefferson, Dean Acheson, Maya Angelou, Bob Dylan, Hal Hartley, Andy Warhol, Thomas Sowell, Kurt Vonnegut, Alan Ginsburgh, Norman Mailer, Frank Zappa, etc....etc...ad infinitum.

I would answer the rest of that inane post, but if anyone need ask such questions, there is no point.

I am not familiar with these names: Frank Gehry, Hal Hartley. Isn't Thomas Sowell that black conservative, syndicated columnist? You could also add Cal Thomas, Dennis Prager, and Ann Coulter!
I would not include the following as intellectuals:
Martin Luther KIng Jr...he had leadership qualities, determination, but no ideas-he quoted the bible. He inspired crowds with bible quotes.
Martin Scorecese...made Hollywood movies, did he have any innovative ideas?
Maya Angelou...writes poetry about ?
Andy Warhol...made larger than life sized boxes of Brillo Pads and Campbell Soup cans. Best quote, "Art is whatever you can get away with!"
Frank Zappa...wrote various superficical lyrics about such things as muffins (I do like "Brown Shoes").
Thanks for reminding me about Alan Ginsburg. The Beats (especially Kerouac and Burroughs) were interesting and contributed to world class literature, having many of their works translated into various languages.
Voltaire and Descartes wrote philosophy. Sartre founded Existentialism.
I'm sure America has plenty of intellectuals, but they are ignored and scoffed by the public. I think it was in 1981 (or 1980) that thousands of French gathered for the funeral of Sartre in Paris. Can you envision as many as 500 showing up for the funeral of an American intellectual?
American intellectuals with creative, original ideas for art, music, literature, and film just rot away. Nobody's interested.
With my previous post I am not stating opinions as to which people, the French or Americans are better. More so, the public attitude in each respective nation toward (or against) intellectuals.
Check out the best seller lists for non-fiction books. Virtually none have any philosophical or literary substance. Best seller today, bargain bin tomorrow! Americans read for entertainment, emotional satisfaction, and "how to do it" (gaining wealth, dieting, etc.), but not for mind stimulation.
As for the rest of my previous post I cited examples.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

I am not familiar with these names: Frank Gehry, Hal Hartley. Isn't Thomas Sowell that black conservative, syndicated columnist? You could also add Cal Thomas, Dennis Prager, and Ann Coulter!
I would not include the following as intellectuals:
Martin Luther KIng Jr...he had leadership qualities, determination, but no ideas-he quoted the bible. He inspired crowds with bible quotes.
Martin Scorecese...made Hollywood movies, did he have any innovative ideas?
Maya Angelou...writes poetry about ?
Andy Warhol...made larger than life sized boxes of Brillo Pads and Campbell Soup cans. Best quote, "Art is whatever you can get away with!"
Frank Zappa...wrote various superficical lyrics about such things as muffins (I do like "Brown Shoes").
Thanks for reminding me about Alan Ginsburg. The Beats (especially Kerouac and Burroughs) were interesting and contributed to world class literature, having many of their works translated into various languages.
Voltaire and Descartes wrote philosophy. Sartre founded Existentialism.
I'm sure America has plenty of intellectuals, but they are ignored and scoffed by the public. I think it was in 1981 (or 1980) that thousands of French gathered for the funeral of Sartre in Paris. Can you envision as many as 500 showing up for the funeral of an American intellectual?
American intellectuals with creative, original ideas for art, music, literature, and film just rot away. Nobody's interested.
With my previous post I am not stating opinions as to which people, the French or Americans are better. More so, the public attitude in each respective nation toward (or against) intellectuals.
Check out the best seller lists for non-fiction books. Virtually none have any philosophical or literary substance. Best seller today, bargain bin tomorrow! Americans read for entertainment, emotional satisfaction, and "how to do it" (gaining wealth, dieting, etc.), but not for mind stimulation.
As for the rest of my previous post I cited examples.

i wouldn't say steinbeck, whitman, hemingway, dylan, pollack, or chomsky (to name a few) simply "rot away" because "no one's interested". though i would agree that many (not all) americans simply aren't aware, unless it's more about entertainment value, immediate gratification, or the superficial "self improvement" trend of the season. "sound bytes." truly sad in my opinion, as well.

and did sartre "found" existentialism, or play more of a role in "popularizing" it (like camus)? i would think there are some german and danish intellectuals that might be considered as more of founding figures of existentialism, no?

either way, i think you hit on some important points considering the misunderstanding across the atlantic having a bit to do with orientation to intellect and/or awareness...

[Visvaldis]

Originally Posted by hello-world

i wouldn't say steinbeck, whitman, hemingway, dylan, pollack, or chomsky (to name a few) simply "rot away" because "no one's interested". though i would agree that many (not all) americans simply aren't aware, unless it's more about entertainment value, immediate gratification, or the superficial "self improvement" trend of the season. "sound bytes." truly sad in my opinion, as well.

and did sartre "found" existentialism, or play more of a role in "popularizing" it (like camus)? i would think there are some german and danish intellectuals that might be considered as more of founding figures of existentialism, no?

Very good post. Yes, I'm sorry, how could I forget Steinbeck, Hemingway, etc. They certainly could be rated as authors of world class literature. Thanks for the mention. I would also add Henry Miller, one of my favorites. "Tropic Of Cancer" is a brilliant book.
I have read some from Sartre and Camus, but don't know of any Danish or German authors who dealt with existentialism.

[Tama]

I am afraid that I have to agree here with Moth. There are many brilliant American thinkers and innovators and there are huge numbers of people who are appreciative and aware of their contributions. However, the average American is not and though this is purely anecdotal-from my experience the average European is far more appreciative of this aspect of life. I have Russian friends who never had an education and had to leave their country in their teens to work in German war factories (forced) and yet have magnificent appreciation and knowledge about music, art, and philosophy. It is just part of European life. Culturally, Americans are more in the here and now, no looking back, and the future and much more pragmatic in their habits. By that I mean--the thinking goes "if it has something to contribute to my immediate needs I love it. If it is "just talk" or just a "museum" it is too removed from my life." I mean in general--wouldn't you fellow Americans agree here? Again, this whole idea of disliking another people because of such nonesense is a waste. Enjoy what you can offer each other and appreciate the differences. Paris is a fabulous city, the French are fascinating, and America is a wonder.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by Tama

I am afraid that I have to agree here with Moth. There are many brilliant American thinkers and innovators and there are huge numbers of people who are appreciative and aware of their contributions. However, the average American is not and though this is purely anecdotal-from my experience the average European is far more appreciative of this aspect of life. I have Russian friends who never had an education and had to leave their country in their teens to work in German war factories (forced) and yet have magnificent appreciation and knowledge about music, art, and philosophy. It is just part of European life. Culturally, Americans are more in the here and now, no looking back, and the future and much more pragmatic in their habits. By that I mean--the thinking goes "if it has something to contribute to my immediate needs I love it. If it is "just talk" or just a "museum" it is too removed from my life." I mean in general--wouldn't you fellow Americans agree here? Again, this whole idea of disliking another people because of such nonesense is a waste. Enjoy what you can offer each other and appreciate the differences. Paris is a fabulous city, the French are fascinating, and America is a wonder.

thank you very much. you are very right.

[Moth]

I am not familiar with these names: Frank Gehry, Hal Hartley.

Of course you are not.

[Visvaldis]

Thanks, Moth,
I did a quick google search of Gehry and Hartley. Maybe I'll rent a DVD of a Hartley film. I appreciate your suggestion. If we were sitting in a bar together I would gladly buy you a snifter of French VSOP cognac.
Are these two people well known? I've never heard of them. My earlier point is that America, like any nation, does have intellectuals, but they remain almost unknown, except to a small handful of people.
I have the great misfortune of living in Louisville, the only things they understand and talk about here are football and basketball. People don't talk about authors, filmmakers, artists, musicians and such. Instead, they discuss quarterbacks and coaches. But I don't think, that across America, Louisville is an exception. America's heros are those who score touchdowns or shoot 30 points per game.
One recent post mentioned that in other countries, even the blue collars take an interest in authors, filmmakers, artists, and musicians.
By knowing about architects and filmmakers, you apparently are not the average American either. Thanks for the enlightenment.