Orwellian Europe in the making (buy, camp, tax)

[Neuling]

According to this article the EU is working on a project called Project Indect whose goal it is to enable the surveillance of people living in the EU. I don't know about you, but I don't want my tax money to be wasted on the paranoia of those politicians and secret service people. We really have much more urgent problems to take care of.
Where does that odd wish to control people come from? After all, there are similar tendencies in the US and other places, too. Have politicians not learned from the past? When citizens cease to trust the government etc., it is the beginning of the end.

[kevxu]

It looks like something to be concerned about; however, take note that you are reading it in the Telegraph....and like so many English newspapers, it regularly prints rumor, exaggeration, scare-mongering, etc. as news. I'd wait until it's written about in a more credible place.

You live in Portugal. Remember how dreadfully the Telegraph - and the English press in general - performed during the Madelein McCann abduction. They had to pay a fortune in fines for sliming people.

[Neuling]

Yes, I know, but I was just looking for an article in English as I had originally read about it in German, which I suppose does not help much here
There are lots of other sources on the Web.

[Ounce]

It does seem the World is dividing into blocks like in Orwells book.

This is a map of Orwells 1984. In his map with the exception of the UK. Iceland and Ireland, all of Europe (including todays EU) are part of the Eurasian Alliance.

Map: http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.c..._world_map.png

[Geography Freak]

The EU is an out-of-control monster. What was initially supposed to be an agreement between sovereign nations has now become a leviathan whose main aim is to get rid of nation states by any means. "Make it look like an accident". The Irish referendum will be repeated ad infinitum until they get the result they want, even if they have to blackmail Ireland into submission.

[Neuling]

Yes, that's true. Either they repeat the referendum until they get the result they want, or they use a crisis like the current one to help troubled countries and thus make people think that the EU is good for them. I wish Portugal would leave the EU, but the country is too poor, depends on the money from Brussels, Strasbourg or wherever the EU headquarters are like a junkie depends on drugs.

[kerouac2]

Who are "they"? I thought it was "we".

For the past 5000 years or more, people have been ruled with fear, and it is not about to change. Fear of other countries, fear of religion, fear of famine, fear of losing what we have, fear of communism, fear of terrorism, etc. All of the manipulative powers are to get us to distrust and fear everything that does not come from our leaders. As long as we are afraid, they will claim that they are in power to protect us, for a small fee, of course. I for one am very happy with the EU, which is not an entity of fear but for once an organism with a positive outlook that is trying to convince us not to distrust each other anymore and to break down all of the walls that the countries have built out of paranoia.

If you want to live in a little armed camp and hate all outsiders, I can think of a few places in the world that might be highly suitable for you. But of course the people in those places would never accept you.

[Neuling]

Well, I don't want that EU, I never did. I liked Europe better when each country was more separate, had its own currency and standards etc. I just don't buy into that vision of a unified Europe. Especially if they (no, I don't consider the political elite behind the EU representative of me, thus it is they vs me) want to force things upon people without asking them. Asking a country's parliament and asking a country's population are not the same thing. I don't feel European, I am German and will be Portuguese once I get naturalized. I couldn't care less for the rest of Europe.

[ZipZap]

Originally Posted by Neuling

I couldn't care less for the rest of Europe.

Except for the money that "the rest of Europe" is investing in Portugal as you posted above. Wow, that is a statement.

[Neuling]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

Except for the money that "the rest of Europe" is investing in Portugal as you posted above. Wow, that is a statement.

It is a waste, anyway. Poverty is still as widespread as ever and on the rise, corruption is everywhere. Hardly anywhere in Europe is the difference between the rich and the poor greater than here. Portugal has not invested the money wisely, but wasted it on monumental town halls, highways and stuff like that, while the real problems have not been addressed. If we were not part of the EU, we could at least live without all the standards and rules from Brussels and maybe get closer to Brasil. Why would I care for Poland, Denmark or Slovakia etc.? We don't have anything to do with those countries, but with former African colonies and Brazil, which are much closer to us, not least because of the common history and language. It is like with the UK. People there feel closer to the USA than to the rest of Europe, for the same reasons.