Millions worldwide would like to switch countries: study (school, university)
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I'd have to agree. The EU is an extranational authority or confederation, but it's not a nation. A Hawaiian is much more likely to say they're an American first than a Frenchman is to say they're a European first. (I picked those two on purpose. The French I think were most likely to identify as European first and Hawaii is maybe the most unconnected part of the US)
It's possible the EU is evolving into a nation and will be one someday, but it's not really one at the moment.
The EU is not a country(at least I cannot view it that way). It's not a single nation, it is a bunch of independent countries. The states in the US are not countries. Until the EU is defined as a single nation with no independent countries then there wouldn't be an argument.
I think it is and the people just haven't accepted that their politicians have turned it into such yet.
The states in the U.S. were independent countries, the Articles of Confederation preserved that, even after the Constitution was written they were nearly independent. The Civil War changed that as before that there was no question states could leave the union. Which was my point. The EU has done the same thing, gradually turn independent countries into parts of one country. Currently the EU is like pre-1860 U.S., as the people associate with their states first and foremost not the union, and the member states can still pull out, but I do believe eventually it will get to where that's impossible.
That's an interesting way to put it, though maybe in the future, but I still don't find it as a single nation. The EU is made up of established countries with their own distinct cultures. The US states aren't really that at this point. And we can go back to US pre-1860, but it was quite different. I'm not sure the US ever had as many distinct countries like that or were as independent to the extent that Europe is now. The US had many territories. It was more of large portions of the US where owned by somewhere else and some was just set aside. The Articles of Confederation was that maybe just a tad bit, but they identified as one nation quicker. They weren't analogous to France and Germany(two very different places, distinct cultures). In fact they were all colonized by the British. In my honest opinion I think the two are very different.
You see what I'm viewing is that even if the EU is a country, I don't really think it is like the US, so I don't understand the comparisons so many people make. If the US was called Columbia or Washington(or some other name) would we really be into this talk right now? Don't you think because this country is called the United States of America that people seem to think we're composed of different countries or something, like that of Europe? That is something I always wonder. Is the name misleading? There are similarities, but even if the EU were to become it's own established country, it would be different. The US had a completely different history(if we're talking culturally). Now politically I see what you're saying, but I'm skeptical on it in some manners, we don't know how everything will turn out for sure.
I think it is and the people just haven't accepted that their politicians have turned it into such yet.
The states in the U.S. were independent countries, the Articles of Confederation preserved that, even after the Constitution was written they were nearly independent. The Civil War changed that as before that there was no question states could leave the union. Which was my point. The EU has done the same thing, gradually turn independent countries into parts of one country. Currently the EU is like pre-1860 U.S., as the people associate with their states first and foremost not the union, and the member states can still pull out, but I do believe eventually it will get to where that's impossible.
I think you exaggerate how independent the states were under the pre-Civil War Constitution. New England threatened to secede once and South Carolina did several times, but I don't know that it was universally agreed they could.
Even under the Articles of Confederacy none of the former colonies were nations with centuries of history and their own language. (Unless you count Gullah and Pennsylvania Dutch, but those were mostly not the state's majority language) Portugal has existed since 1249 or so. The British Royal Family is of essentially the same line as when we became independent.
Even if the analogy did work using it Europe won't be a nation for another 70 or 80 years.
Our first black President was the son of an African and not the son of an African American. Before him Colin Powell was the son of Jamaican immigrants. The American experience is the immigrant experience. That's also true of Australia, New Zealand, and Canada to varying degrees.
Europe probably takes in more immigrants now than us, but Europe is not "a land of immigrants" in that way. Britain's first big ethnic leader I think was Disraeli and Disraeli's father was born in England. He was a grandchild of immigrants, but not an immigrant directly. He was of the established Church of England, not the Judaism of his ancestors. Some immigrants to Europe do great, but I think there is a different history and image.
It is important, though, to point out the fact that eventhough the US is "the land of immigrants", it does not allow immigrants to become president nor vice president.
Which, however, most "European" countries actually allow.
Immigrants seem to be more "trusted" outside the US, by the looks of it.
And no, the EU is not a country/nation. It's a UNION of 31 COUNTRIES. Saying that just because you're in a union with someone, you cannot be an independent country, iis purely wrong. That is only the case if you believe the only kind of union that exists is the union between the states of America (USA).
(Notice the word "states". The states in America are states - they never were nations. Therefore, the USA and the EU cannot be compared, as the EU is a union between independent nations, whereas the USA is a union between states.)
There are other types of unions as well. E.g. the Nordic Union, between Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland and Iceland. The people (plural) can move around as they please between the countries, among other things, but the 5 countries are still independent. They are not one nation called "Nordic Union".
The EU is a union between many of the European countries. It is however NOT a nation.
Union does not equal nation. Sorry. And I hope it never will.
Two world wars started in Europe. I fear the third will be the result if we try and force all 49 nations together as one nation...
From the article
Quote:
The least likely to want to emigrate were Asians -- only one in 10 Asian adults said they would move to another country.
As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, "only one in ten" isn't that few. It's only the world's most populated continent, with appr. 4/6 of the entire human population.
Is that EU court that told Italy no crucifixes in schools, binding? There's also an EU parliament, council and president. A flag and an anthem. Sorry but it has all the markings of a country. The U.S. started similarly as independent states before moving towards a stronger federal government.
The EU could never even remotely be considered a country. Even the UK which is one 'nation' is comprised of 4 different cultures - English, Scottish, Welsh and NI.
Israel, South Korea, Tajikistan, and Thailand are the four to be "immigration neutral." As in the number saying they'd want to move their equals the number saying they want to leave. The US is relatively low, in per-capita terms, among developed English speaking nations.
Not all African nations are places people want to flee. Botswana's population would gain 55% when the number of people wanting to leave or enter Botswana is added together. Namibia and South Africa also have net positives of "leave versus enter." Although most African nations do come out with more wanting to leave than enter. Zimbabwe and Congo being the most extreme.
Latin America and the Caribbean is, in a way, worse however. Although they don't have an example as extreme as Congo or Zimbabwe they also do not seem to have any nation where more want to enter than leave. Even Belize, Costa Rica, Panama, and Uruguay have more people expressing a desire to leave over enter. El Salvador ends up with a net-negative equal to Ethiopia and nearly equal to Zimbabwe.
Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union also seem to have no nations with more wanting to enter then leave. Although none of those nations are quite as extreme as Latin America or Africa on this. The closest is Moldova which has a net-negative equal to Burkina Faso or Honduras. Tajikistan was neutral as mentioned.
In America food is cheap, housing is cheap, incredible welfare and free health system. European countries are very expensive. As for other countries, they are not going to welcome immigrants unless they have lots of money.
Housing is cheap in the U.S.?
Incredible welfare in the U.S.?
Free health system in the U.S.?
Not true
Not true
Not true
Housing is very expensive in Florida (probably more expensive in other states).
The wealth of the U.S. is not distributed properly. The gap between the rich and the poor is the biggest among developed nations. Our minimum salary is low compared to other developed nations.
Free Health system?? is this a joke? we don`t have universal health care. Our health care system is worst than many developing nations. There are 60 million U.S. National without health care. Even if some citizens are lucky enough and have medical insurance they have to pay "deductibles" etc. The deductible for having a baby is about $3,000 USD.
Europe is too expensive?
Europe is not expensive for Europeans, because they earn Euros and not U.S. dollars.
The minimum wage in Ireland for example is 1,403 Euros. Irish people who make minimum wage don`t pay income taxes.
The French minimum wage is $13 per hour, while the minimum wage in Florida is $7.25.
The French people have universal healthcare and an amazing subway.
The rest of the EU countries is the same.... they distribute better the wealth of their nations, by having higher minimum wages and greater benefits. Why? because they are more egalitarian, they believe that people should be treated as equal and have the same political, economical, and social civil rights (removal of economic inequalities among citizens) this is more noticeable in Scandinavian countries.
I really don`t understand why the U.S. has such a low minimum wage if we have a super high GDP.
Last edited by Eduardo983; 11-09-2009 at 08:01 AM..
10-20 years ago, my dad's friend started factories there but local fishermen could barely afford to buy the fishing nets and these were given away for a song for example. But other manufactured products paid off as they were shipped to Europe, Saudi and other parts of the world at very low tariffs.
Others bought plantations in Cameroon and Côte d'Ivoire which paid off handsomely When the cash-rich Chinese purchased them.
Those who have vision and get ahead of the curve will fare well.
Just be sure not to jump from the frying pan in to the fire; really the old economies are dying off, and the oligarchies and their cronies have run out of steam to reinvent themselves. Next is inevitable.
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is this a joke? we don`t have universal health care. Our health care system is worst than many developing nations. There are 60 million U.S. National without health care. Even if some citizens are lucky enough and have medical insurance they have to pay "deductibles" etc. The deductible for having a baby is about $3,000 USD.
