EU court to Italy: remove crucifixes in schools (2009, homes)

[arctichomesteader]

European court: No crucifixes in Italian schools - Yahoo! News

ROME – The Vatican on Tuesday denounced a ruling by the European court of human rights that said the display of crucifixes in Italian public schools violates religious and education freedoms.

[HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal]

I guess we should then remove all Christian churches from Italy, since it will subject non-Christians to religious prosecution.

In fact, we should remove any type of culture that reflects any type of foundation on Christian values...

I agree with the Vatican on this one; It's part of the culture - make a referendum, and don't allow an elite court to civilize us.

[JaneyBlu]

Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal

I guess we should then remove all Christian churches from Italy, since it will subject non-Christians to religious prosecution.

In fact, we should remove any type of culture that reflects any type of foundation on Christian values...

I agree with the Vatican on this one; It's part of the culture - make a referendum, and don't allow an elite court to civilize us.

I couldn't disagree more.

[kevxu]

Originally Posted by HappyDaysCopenhagenSkoal

....
I agree with the Vatican on this one; It's part of the culture - make a referendum, and don't allow an elite court to civilize us.

Like Spain, Italy has changed enormously over the last twenty years. It is a very secular country in many respects. That its history is intertwined with that of the Roman Church and the Papacy is not in question, nor is it denied.

The Vatican has very little turf left in Western Europe, and it cannot be happy at the thought of being a tiny religious enclave in a secular nation.

This is a report on a survey done by the Venetian Patriarchate in 2007 reported in the Telegraph.:

"But a study by the Patriarchate of Venice, which actually asked worshippers inside 619 churches how often they had been in the past month, found only 15 per cent of worshippers go to Mass every Sunday, and eight per cent said they had been at some point in the last month. In total, only 23 per cent were shown to actually go to Church regularly."

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by JaneyBlu

I couldn't disagree more.

Seeing a cross in a classroom is not even approaching infringing on religious freedom. If a person can't tolerate the mere sight of a symbol of another religion they are very intolerant.

[Geography Freak]

That deconstructionism for you.

[kevxu]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

Seeing a cross in a classroom is not even approaching infringing on religious freedom. If a person can't tolerate the mere sight of a symbol of another religion they are very intolerant.

It's a sell, an advertisement.

Given that Italy, like much of Western Europe, has believers in other religions, as well a no lack of avowed atheists, it would be a grand idea, I think, to put up a Jewish symbol, a Muslim one, etc. and a sign representing Atheism saying, "All these things are bunk."

Spain is in the process of separating the R.C. church and the state, which - as in Italy - acted as an instrument of the fascist state. When it was proposed that Catholic religion classes be replaced by a course teaching about the religions of the world the R.C. Church raised a furor...every recommendation that the R.C. religions at least share the limelight in the sphere of public education was met with strong resistance by the Church.

In Italy the Church has a monopoly on the eyes in the classroom and it wants to keep it that way.

[Geography Freak]

It turns out the sensitive soul is Finnish too. Way to integrate.

Good to see the European Union keeps sticking its nose in the nations' domestic business.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Yes, maybe every classroom needs the Coexist sign.
Seems to me that many countries in the EU are a bit schizo when it comes to religion. France has many Christian holidays, yet professes to be secular.
The article quote's someone say that this is a "profoundly Italian matter," but Western Europe's population is declining--including Italy.
They probably need to do some soul-searching and make some decisions. Certainly the cathedrals and churches are indeed cultural treasures, but I don't see how that compares to crucifixes in the classroom.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by Geography Freak

It turns out the sensitive soul is Finnish too. Way to integrate.

Good to see the European Union keeps sticking its nose in the nations' domestic business.

And perhaps that is the biggest thing to note here: the growing power of the EU over the member states.