I am so sick of seeing such horrible spelling and word usage. (sentence, British)

[CD's Only Mrs. X]

Originally Posted by Twinkle Toes

I hear ya - another is "judgment" which is frequently misspelled as "judgement". There is SO much more ... but I'll spare you my rant.

Actually Twinkle Toes judgement or judgment are both correct in spelling. It is dependent on the preference of the writer.

I once made this mistake with licence and license, both are correct in spelling it just depends what part of the world you are using it in.

And yes I did use bad grammer to make my point but this is a forum after all. I save all my perfect grammer for nasty customer service letters and what not.

[BramH]

Originally Posted by wannabee

While you cannot expect it, it's important for all to be aware that a misspelling or any misuse of any language can change the meaning of an entire sentence or thought, inviting laughter instead of tears, or sounding insulting when it isn't meant to be. I misunderstand spoken English sometimes, from fellow USA born people!

Yes that's true. I also have that with my first language, people being to easy with the way they use the language, especially on the internet.
But yes, people should pay more attention when writing a message.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by BramH

Lol English is like my fourth language?
Can't help it that it's not perfect....

But on a forum of my first language I would be bothered as well.

Unfortunately English is a language also used by foreigners which means you can not expect others to use perfect spelling and grammar.

Your English as demonstrated above is far better than many Americans who post on here! We're not asking for perfect. We're asking for somewhat close to something beyond third grade.

I see you are in the Netherlands. Are you Dutch? That is currently the closest language to English! I read that somewhere not long ago, but I can't remember where it was.

I'm of Dutch descent, but we've been here for five or more generations, so no living family members speak it.

LOL, no dead family members seem to be saying much in Dutch these days, either.

[PJSinger]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

I'm of Dutch descent, but we've been here for five or more generations, so no living family members speak it.

LOL, no dead family members seem to be saying much in Dutch these days, either.

LOL, Mq!

[BramH]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

Your English as demonstrated above is far better than many Americans who post on here! We're not asking for perfect. We're asking for somewhat close to something beyond third grade.

I see you are in the Netherlands. Are you Dutch? That is currently the closest language to English! I read that somewhere not long ago, but I can't remember where it was.

I'm of Dutch descent, but we've been here for five or more generations, so no living family members speak it.

LOL, no dead family members seem to be saying much in Dutch these days, either.

Hey thanks.
Yes I'm from the Netherlands and living there at the moment. I'm doing international studies which might be the reason my English is quite okay.

However also Dutch is not my first language, which actually is a dialect we speak in the south of the country. It's a mix of Dutch and German and some random languages. Than Dutch and German are second and third.

But you are right, it is kind of close to English, but on the other side I don't see why it would be closer to English than German for example. Or even Swedish (which I also speak), which actually is easier to learn from English to Swedish, than Dutch to Swedish.

All languages come from German/Latin family and got mixed up very long ago when people started talking and stuff. Every direction in Europe has a sort of similar tone/sound I could say.

For example the Scandinavian countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway). Sweden has ruled a big part of the history in these parts of Europe, and what we can see nowadays is that people who speak Swedish, also understand Norwegian and Danish, but the other way around that's not possible. From what I've read, this is because of the way history went and the languages were ''created''.

The same happend with English, which in the past also has been way different. Because of the history of the Kingdom of Holland and the British Kingdom(or Empire? I don't know), the languages always changed a bit long after they have been ''created''. These two countries had fights all the time, but on the other side also had strong ties cause they both were rich and needed each others import/export. Because they visited each others countries, they also influenced the languages of eachother. Something we can see these days now more than ever, when a new product comes on the market it will be given 50% of the time an English name. Like laptop, discman, computer. When making a verb of that, we in the Netherlands do not say I'm busy on the laptop/computer. No, we say ''Im computering''(Ik ben het computeren=computer is the verb here).

Totally offtopic tho

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by BramH

Hey thanks.
Yes I'm from the Netherlands and living there at the moment. I'm doing international studies which might be the reason my English is quite okay.

However also Dutch is not my first language, which actually is a dialect we speak in the south of the country. It's a mix of Dutch and German and some random languages. Than Dutch and German are second and third.

But you are right, it is kind of close to English, but on the other side I don't see why it would be closer to English than German for example. Or even Swedish (which I also speak), which actually is easier to learn from English to Swedish, than Dutch to Swedish.

All languages come from German/Latin family and got mixed up very long ago when people started talking and stuff. Every direction in Europe has a sort of similar tone/sound I could say.

For example the Scandinavian countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway). Sweden has ruled a big part of the history in these parts of Europe, and what we can see nowadays is that people who speak Swedish, also understand Norwegian and Danish, but the other way around that's not possible. From what I've read, this is because of the way history went and the languages were ''created''.

The same happend with English, which in the past also has been way different. Because of the history of the Kingdom of Holland and the British Kingdom(or Empire? I don't know), the languages always changed a bit long after they have been ''created''. These two countries had fights all the time, but on the other side also had strong ties cause they both were rich and needed each others import/export. Because they visited each others countries, they also influenced the languages of eachother. Something we can see these days now more than ever, when a new product comes on the market it will be given 50% of the time an English name. Like laptop, discman, computer. When making a verb of that, we in the Netherlands do not say I'm busy on the laptop/computer. No, we say ''Im computering''(Ik ben het computeren=computer is the verb here).

Totally offtopic tho

No, it's not off-topic, this is the writing forum and words are the root of what we love!

I was also surprised to read that Dutch was closer than German. I know what you mean about the dialects though. My father's mother thought he married beneath himself because her family spoke a "better" dialect of Dutch than my mother's family did.

There is an interesting book called The Power of Babel that addresses language and how it evolves. The author is John McWhorter, an American linguistics professor. It's written for the average person (not for academic types) and is humorous at times.

Another good book, recommended to me by a Dutch aviation engineer who was doing business with us, is The Island At The Center of the World, by Russell Shorto. It's about the Dutch colony of Nieuw Amsterdam, which later became New York after the British took it over. Because the Brits wrote most of the history, much of the Dutch history was lost until about 30 years ago when someone came across old Dutch documents from the time of the colony and translated them. It became apparent how much of the Dutch form of government and practices influenced not only New York City, but the U.S. in general.

[BramH]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

No, it's not off-topic, this is the writing forum and words are the root of what we love!

I was also surprised to read that Dutch was closer than German. I know what you mean about the dialects though. My father's mother thought he married beneath himself because her family spoke a "better" dialect of Dutch than my mother's family did.

There is an interesting book called The Power of Babel that addresses language and how it evolves. The author is John McWhorter, an American linguistics professor. It's written for the average person (not for academic types) and is humorous at times.

Another good book, recommended to me by a Dutch aviation engineer who was doing business with us, is The Island At The Center of the World, by Russell Shorto. It's about the Dutch colony of Nieuw Amsterdam, which later became New York after the British took it over. Because the Brits wrote most of the history, much of the Dutch history was lost until about 30 years ago when someone came across old Dutch documents from the time of the colony and translated them. It became apparent how much of the Dutch form of government and practices influenced not only New York City, but the U.S. in general.

Well yes it is about writing, just not about Dutch language history that's more what I meant. But okay.. ^^

The thing about a ''better'' dialect/language actually still plays a role here. The south of the Netherlands speaks this dialect, and the more south you go the more German it gets. People from the north/west like to bash the South for being Germans and stuff like that. That's the case aswell with your father's mother I think. (I have nothing against German, actually I prefer them over the Dutch, but the north/west likes to bash them aswell.)
Some say we are the Texas of the Netherlands, patriotic and proud, but tend to get bashed. However, I do not know enough about the USA to confirm that comparison.

Sounds like interesting books, the first one especially. I'm totally interested in languages!

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by BramH

Well yes it is about writing, just not about Dutch language history that's more what I meant. But okay.. ^^

The thing about a ''better'' dialect/language actually still plays a role here. The south of the Netherlands speaks this dialect, and the more south you go the more German it gets. People from the north/west like to bash the South for being Germans and stuff like that. That's the case aswell with your father's mother I think. (I have nothing against German, actually I prefer them over the Dutch, but the north/west likes to bash them aswell.)
Some say we are the Texas of the Netherlands, patriotic and proud, but tend to get bashed. However, I do not know enough about the USA to confirm that comparison.

Sounds like interesting books, the first one especially. I'm totally interested in languages!

So am I, but like a lot of Americans, I never learned a second language. I'm sorry about that now. I usually CAN figure out what the Spanish signs and advertisements on the subway say.

I must have passed it to my daughter, because she is actually doing something about it. She was just about fluent in Spanish by the time she graduated high school, and now she is majoring in Chinese and minoring in linguistics and has been learning both Chinese and Russian this past year.

Her boyfriend was born in Germany, so she's picked up a little bit of that, too, but

[BramH]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

So am I, but like a lot of Americans, I never learned a second language. I'm sorry about that now. I usually CAN figure out what the Spanish signs and advertisements on the subway say.

I must have passed it to my daughter, because she is actually doing something about it. She was just about fluent in Spanish by the time she graduated high school, and now she is majoring in Chinese and minoring in linguistics and has been learning both Chinese and Russian this past year.

Her boyfriend was born in Germany, so she's picked up a little bit of that, too, but

Yes, I do not want to badmouth Americans(or other English speaking countries) but I think a lot of people will regret later on only talking one language. I see so much benefits from the languages I speak, which are; Limburgian, Dutch, German, English, Swedish, French, Italian, Chinese. From French on its really basic conversation to Chinese REALLY basic.

However, if you're from the Netherlands you simply Have to study another language because no one else will study yours. Simple as it is.
We have a schoolsystem which gives basic courses German and French. Later on some school make it possible to study Italian or Spanish too.
Swedish was something I did out of interest. Italian and Chinese are minors on my university.

I think your daughter made a perfect choice on those two languages tho! If she speaks only one of them fluent she'll get a nice job in the world of international business with a bit of effort.

One funny thing about languages is, when visiting a country like Poland(just an example which I experienced), and the locals say: ''Sorry no good English''.
They feel like they have to speak English, while in fact it is rude from us/the visitors, to not speak Their language while visiting Their country.

The opposite are the French, (not all of course just talking about my experience here), when I worked in an indoor snow park/leisure hall, where a lot of French people came in the Netherlands. They came and started talking French, assuming we could understand them, and than became aggressive that they did not get what they wanted.

Just think about it, how wrong are these situations? Do you (English speaking people) ever had a situation like this?

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by BramH

Yes, I do not want to badmouth Americans(or other English speaking countries) but I think a lot of people will regret later on only talking one language. I see so much benefits from the languages I speak, which are; Limburgian, Dutch, German, English, Swedish, French, Italian, Chinese. From French on its really basic conversation to Chinese REALLY basic.

However, if you're from the Netherlands you simply Have to study another language because no one else will study yours. Simple as it is.
We have a schoolsystem which gives basic courses German and French. Later on some school make it possible to study Italian or Spanish too.
Swedish was something I did out of interest. Italian and Chinese are minors on my university.

I think your daughter made a perfect choice on those two languages tho! If she speaks only one of them fluent she'll get a nice job in the world of international business with a bit of effort.

One funny thing about languages is, when visiting a country like Poland(just an example which I experienced), and the locals say: ''Sorry no good English''.

They feel like they have to speak English, while in fact it is rude from us/the visitors, to not speak Their language while visiting Their country.

The opposite are the French, (not all of course just talking about my experience here), when I worked in an indoor snow park/leisure hall, where a lot of French people came in the Netherlands. They came and started talking French, assuming we could understand them, and than became aggressive that they did not get what they wanted.

Just think about it, how wrong are these situations? Do you (English speaking people) ever had a situation like this?

I think because America was isolated by the Atlantic and Pacific oceans for so long, we became very English-centric. Now that the world is smaller, it's not working out so well.

I think the French are known for being that way about their language.

We have a lot of Spanish-speaking people in the US now, and some people are annoyed about that. There are entire threads about this from time to time on the Politics forum.

I live in New Jersey and work in New York City. There are people here from all over the world. Most of them try to learn English. People in this area are a lot more tolerant of different accents and are used to hearing them than are people in other parts of this country.