using "myself" vs. "me" shouldn"t be interchangeable (sentence, tense)
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Seems that many will use "myself" instead of "me" in their speech, as if they're interchangeable. I really don't believe they are?
For example: "Myself and John" (or "John and myself") went out to dinner. Shouldn't it be "John and I..." or even "I and John..."?
Shouldn't "myself" be used only in the "reflexive" form -- or is it not called "reflexive"? For instance, I laughed at myself. Or, I wish to be by myself. One certainly wouldn't substitute "me" in those examples.
I believe that people use "myself" just to sound smarter, when in fact "me" is the only acceptable usage, no? Sometimes "me" is correct -- believe it or not.
I realize I'm being picky?
Am I at all wrong, people? I'm sure most of you use and approve of "myself" used in the "wrong" ways depicted above.
It probably doesn't matter nowadays, as we all know language changes, and most don't wish to be -- or be with! -- grammarians, anyway!
Seems that many will use "myself" instead of "me" in their speech, as if they're interchangeable. I really don't believe they are?
For example: "Myself and John" (or "John and myself") went out to dinner. Shouldn't it be "John and I..." or even "I and John..."?....
I wonder if it is possible that this crept into American English with the immigration of so many Irish during the Great Famine and after. In Irish (Gaelic) the reflexive word for self can be used for emphasis in the subject of a sentence; thus, you would end up with uses such as "John and myself did......"
In time, I presume, the strict carryover from the Irish language would vanish and "myself" would just become a nominative option for people. Like myself.
Try using me, myself and I. Refer to your dark side as your shadow. When asked who that is, confidently respond, that is the self in me. Is it a true self or a false self? Sadly, it is a false myself, when I can speak for myself.
Thou always said I could not be a writer because William Shakespeare set thy bar far too high.
I recall in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid, the nuns pounding into us:
It's not "him and me" it's "he and I"."Him and me ain't going" is incorrect! "He and I are not going" is correct. Ain't is not a word!!
We were taught that only ignorant lazy people with no proper education spoke that way.
It was some time in the 80's that I started noticing on newscasts the incorrect use of I in places where me should have been used.
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and I that the bill.......etc etc"
"She gave it to John and I to examine...etc etc."
It seems they latched onto the idea that using the word me is low class, while I is high class.
That's how I see it anyway.
It's so simple. Leave the other person out of the sentence and see if it sounds right.
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and I that the bill....." becomes - "The senator told I that the bill...." HUH????
"She gave it to John and I to examine.." becomes "She gave it to I to examine.."DUH!!
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and me that the bill...."
"She gave it to John and me to examine...."
Use I when it's the subject, use me when it's the object and use myself (a reflexive pronoun) when you do something to yourself.
John and I went to the store
Mary gave cookies to John and me.
I hit myself with the hammer.
Rule of thumb for I and me: "Knock out the other person in the sentence and you'll get it right." I went to the store. (not...Me went to the store.)
Mary gave cookies to me. (not...Mary gave cookies to I. not...Mary gave cookies to myself.)
I think the problem arose years ago when the teachers were teaching us that the correct and polite way to say John and I went to the store was to put the other person first. John and I... Also to NOT use me in the subjective. So, we all became fearful of when to use me. Then, somewhere along the way, people seemed to replace me with myself.
Myself is a word that's used by folks who are unsure of the proper tense.
A good English teacher taught me how to use I, me, he, she, her and him: Separate the plural into the singular.
I went to the movie. Cathy and I went to the movie. She and I went to the movie. She went, I went.
She goes first in the line; she and I, not I and she.
Me and her didn't go, and neither did her and me go. Me didn't go, but I did, and her didn't go, but she did. But afterward, she talked about the movie to me, and I replied to her. And later, I bought dinner for her and me. I bought dinner for her. I bought dinner for me.
I could also say I bought dinner for herself and for myself, but don't we always drag our selves wherever our minds decide to take us?
Texanne said it best. The only time myself should be used is when a person only does an action or has a thought that applies to them alone. Our teachers taught the same things to Texanne and me. I find it to be a shock to myself that we agree, but I'm glad others will agree with us.
All this is part of a writer's essential tool kit. It is a good topic for her, me, and all of us. It's just as good for y'all as it is for me.
"For example: "Myself and John" (or "John and myself") went out to dinner. Shouldn't it be "John and I..." or even "I and John..."?"
Well, first in formal speech I, me, myself would come after John. However, you will often hear the informal "me and John". You don't often hear "I and John" even if it's meant as the subject.
Also, "John and I" or "John and me" should not be thought of as interchangeable, nor should "John and I" always be thought as more proper.It depends on the case.
John and I will go to the store. ( Subjective)
She embarssed John and me. (Objective)
Myself is a reflexive pronoun of the first person singular, as others mentioned. "John and myself" could be correct.
I would like to introduce John and myself.
Imagine we take out John.Does "I would like to introduce me." sound right?
If I cheat with John's girlfriend, I will hurt John and myself.
"If I cheat with John's girlfriend, I will hurt me" Does that sound correct?
Now, "John and myself are going to the store." is indeed wrong.
RJ brings up the underlying problem with all irregular tenses.
He said, as an example:
"If I cheat with John's girlfriend, I will hurt John and myself.
"If I cheat with John's girlfriend, I will hurt me" Does that sound correct?
There are places where English is spoken where the second sentence would be correct by the common usage of the area. Here in America, we have come to use 'myself' so much that it has come to sound right, whether it is or not. We also more commonly use 'John and I' than 'John and me', even when the second is correct.
That's the thing about our language. It is full of inconsistencies, is very difficult to learn for many folks who speak other native languages, and American English has different words, usage and spellings than British English.
That's what keeps editors' jobs secure! We all create our own set of mistakes, then use them all the time.
I recall in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid, the nuns pounding into us:
It's not "him and me" it's "he and I"."Him and me ain't going" is incorrect! "He and I are not going" is correct. Ain't is not a word!!
We were taught that only ignorant lazy people with no proper education spoke that way.
It was some time in the 80's that I started noticing on newscasts the incorrect use of I in places where me should have been used.
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and I that the bill.......etc etc"
"She gave it to John and I to examine...etc etc."
It seems they latched onto the idea that using the word me is low class, while I is high class.
That's how I see it anyway.
It's so simple. Leave the other person out of the sentence and see if it sounds right.
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and I that the bill....." becomes - "The senator told I that the bill...." HUH????
"She gave it to John and I to examine.." becomes "She gave it to I to examine.."DUH!!
"The senator told Congressman Johnson and me that the bill...."
"She gave it to John and me to examine...."
easy-peasy
Another easy trick is to use what you'd use if you were going to use it in the SUBJECT of the sentence but I think there must be some exceptions to that rule (such as when the verb to give is used..and probably "to" needing to be used has a lot to do with why the rule doesn't work).
If you look at "Southern Academy graduated John and I this year along with the rest of the class of 2012", you can test it by saying :"John and I graduated from Southern Academy this year" or "I graduated from Southern Academy this year" all of which are correct.
I think using various tenses of the verb run works well. You don't say, "Me and Jim ran the Marathon" because you wouldn't say "Me ran the Marathon". Rather you'd say "I ran the marathon or Jim and I ran the Marathon".
Also when you use the word graduated, PLEASE note that the person always graduates FROM the school. You ALWAYS MUST USE THE WORD "FROM" with GRADUATE. If it NEVER CORRECT to say "I graduated Harvard" or "John and I graduated Harvard". It is ALWAYS ALWAYS John and I graduated FROM Harvard. The only time you use graduate without from is when you are speaking of the school graduating the students. It is the school that performs the graduation ceremony and decides whether the students graduate. It is the student who is graduated by the school and graduates FROM that school. The student does not graduate the school. The student graduates FROM the school.
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