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Old 08-16-2015, 06:19 AM
 
37 posts, read 31,051 times
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I've looked in the internet for the answer, but haven't really found anything. In talking about a difficult situation in the past, would we say 'most people would've given up' or 'most people would give up' OR 'most people would've gave up'. Which is correct? And if you know, please explain why.
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Old 08-16-2015, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,651 posts, read 36,106,549 times
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Give up while you're behind.

LOL

It's "Most people WOULD'VE GIVEN UP."

Give up.

Would give up.

Will give up.

Gave up.

Will have given up.

Would have given up.

Don't ask me to explain it. But I'm right.

Here's an example, using the word "eaten" vs "ate."

You wouldn't say, "I would have ate that." You say, "I would have eaten that."

http://esl.fis.edu/grammar/rules/pastperf.htm

Here is an example using the words "give," "given," and "gave."

http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/English/give.html
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Old 08-16-2015, 09:29 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,869 posts, read 10,559,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JemimahPashmina View Post
I've looked in the internet for the answer, but haven't really found anything. In talking about a difficult situation in the past, would we say 'most people would've given up' or 'most people would give up' OR 'most people would've gave up'. Which is correct? And if you know, please explain why.
The only one that is incorrect is the last: you don't say "would've gave up." Or, at least you are not supposed to. That's the contracted form of, "would have gave up." Nope.

Do you really want to know why? Generally, we just have to develop a "feel" for the way it is supposed to be used. Unfortunately, there are so many folks speaking strangely these days. But... if you really want to know the technical reason, here we go...

When you say, "I gave up," you are using the intransitive version of the verb "to give" in its simple past form: gave.

When you use the conditional/helping verb, "would have ... ," you are basically concatenating the conditional indicator "would" with the present perfect form, "have given." Notice the word "given" there? Not "gave"? The present perfect of any verb requires the use of a helping (auxiliary) verb "have" (in the present form here) and the past participle of the verb in question (given). You cannot use the simple past (gave) with the helping verb; it required the participle.

Good: "I have given up" or (contracted form) "I've given up." (present perfect) ... Bad: I have gave up.
Good: "I had given up." or (contracted form) "I'd given up." (past perfect) ... Bad: I had gave up.
Good: "I will have given up." (future perfect) ... Bad: I will have gave up.

When you put the "would" in front of the present perfect (conditional requires present perfect in this case), you are making the present perfect tense into the conditional tense:

"I would have given up." But notice it is exactly like the present perfect tense with the "would" tacked on front. Nothing else changes.


Your other version, "would give up," is also fine. It is turning the simple present into conditional. There are two conditional tenses:

I would give up. (present conditional)
I would have given up. (perfect conditional)

Note that in both cases, we are taking the present tense(s) and affixing the conditional marker, "would."

So... there you have it.
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:38 PM
 
37 posts, read 31,051 times
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To ChrisC: Thanks so much. It's very true that it's often by feel that we grow up speaking our mother tongue. I speak a second language full time and my husband is concentrating on learning english. So, often asks the question 'why'. So, I say "it's just the way it is", but if there's an answer, why not find out! Thanks again.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:43 AM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,869 posts, read 10,559,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JemimahPashmina View Post
To ChrisC: Thanks so much. It's very true that it's often by feel that we grow up speaking our mother tongue. I speak a second language full time and my husband is concentrating on learning english. So, often asks the question 'why'. So, I say "it's just the way it is", but if there's an answer, why not find out! Thanks again.
Glad it helped.

I feel for anyone learning English as a second language. I have very mixed feelings about English. It can be so beautiful and eloquent. But English is a mixed bag as well--especially for a learner. From a linguistic point of view, English could have been considered among the most efficient and simple languages on the planet, if not THE simplest and most efficient. But it's not. Sadly, the patterns of our language are so simple, yet we muck them up terribly by not following those simple patterns with a significant portion of our language. We've chosen to pervert the language by having SO many exceptions to our grammar patterns. And we've chosen to further complicate things with our ludicrously illogical spelling conventions (or, rather, lack thereof).

I'm all for a language that follows it's own rules. It makes life so much easier for the learner and the native speaker alike. A huge reason so many people speak so poorly is because their brains are trying to follow the language patterns and our language does not follow its pattern in so many cases. I admire languages like Spanish, which comes much closer to following its patterns consistently and Turkish, which follows its patterns nearly perfectly, without grammar exceptions at all.

Oh well... lament over. Now it's back to the quest of improved English grammar, inefficient and illogical or not.
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:46 AM
 
5,221 posts, read 5,085,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JemimahPashmina View Post
I've looked in the internet for the answer, but haven't really found anything. In talking about a difficult situation in the past, would we say 'most people would've given up' or 'most people would give up' OR 'most people would've gave up'. Which is correct? And if you know, please explain why.

You're doing well.

You're already a couple steps ahead of those who would write "Would OF given up."
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Old 09-26-2015, 11:17 AM
 
Location: TN
1,273 posts, read 763,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P47P47 View Post
You're doing well.

You're already a couple steps ahead of those who would write "Would OF given up."
Ugh.
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