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Reading this topic one more time, I've realized that I have no clue where to use a comma in lists.
I remember in school a long time ago it was, "apples, oranges and strawberries." Now upon Googling it I've discovered that either the rules have changed, the rules are ambiguous, it depends on whether you are writing formally or colloquially (informally), or any/all of the above. I can't even tell you if the previous sentence is grammatically correct.
Previously my strongest sentiment about grammar (other than trying to make mine correct) was that I can see only the slightest use for a semicolon. I used to have a English composition teacher who had a fetish about semicolons. I'm a guy and I'll admit she was kind of young (maybe 30, and I was in the 11th grade) and she was cute (and nice too), and my favorite thing about her was the few times I ended up standing behind her desk and accidentally staring down her bra. Alas, I didn't see all that much except she had good taste in bras.
BTW she caught me once! LOL! I both blushed and smiled at the same time.
But I never did get why she thought semicolons were so important. In her honor I sometimes use semicolons (hoping I used them correctly) but to be honest I think we could easily dispense with semicolons except in some programming languages (JavaScript) where they may be needed as line terminators.
But really, help me. Is there a Strunk & White Elements of Style answer that addresses the use of commas in lists?
I'm retired, and aspire to author a novel, and I would like to have my initial MS as grammatically correct as possible, but after this topic I don't even know now what is correct.
1. Do it like I was taught in school?
2. Use the Oxford thingie?
3. Just use whatever seems most natural?
4. Let the editor decide if I manage to get signed at a publisher?
Well if I were so fortunate as to snag a publisher, it would be silly for me to argue grammar.
The real problem is if I go with KDP Kindle Direct Publishing where I'm pretty sure there is no human intervention between me submitting my Word MS and having it turned into .mobi or whatever format Amazon is using (AZW?).
Jeez, I never thought I would face a comma crisis as a senior citizen.
Am I obsessing? Obviously all forum posts by definition are informal grammar, or more often gross ignorance of the rules of grammar. Criticize a post and you're a pedant. (Which is at least better than being a pedophile.)
But I want to be taken seriously, either in writers' forums or in C-D's writer's forum area.
Gawd, I didn't have a mid-life crisis. Am I having my mid-life crisis late in life? And over commas?
At least I could care less about semicolons. I've never found a statement I couldn't make without requiring a semicolon.
Reading this topic one more time, I've realized that I have no clue where to use a comma in lists.
I remember in school a long time ago it was, "apples, oranges and strawberries." Now upon Googling it I've discovered that either the rules have changed, the rules are ambiguous, it depends on whether you are writing formally or colloquially (informally), or any/all of the above. I can't even tell you if the previous sentence is grammatically correct.
Previously my strongest sentiment about grammar (other than trying to make mine correct) was that I can see only the slightest use for a semicolon. I used to have a English composition teacher who had a fetish about semicolons. I'm a guy and I'll admit she was kind of young (maybe 30, and I was in the 11th grade) and she was cute (and nice too), and my favorite thing about her was the few times I ended up standing behind her desk and accidentally staring down her bra. Alas, I didn't see all that much except she had good taste in bras.
BTW she caught me once! LOL! I both blushed and smiled at the same time.
But I never did get why she thought semicolons were so important. In her honor I sometimes use semicolons (hoping I used them correctly) but to be honest I think we could easily dispense with semicolons except in some programming languages (JavaScript) where they may be needed as line terminators.
But really, help me. Is there a Strunk & White Elements of Style answer that addresses the use of commas in lists?
I'm retired, and aspire to author a novel, and I would like to have my initial MS as grammatically correct as possible, but after this topic I don't even know now what is correct.
1. Do it like I was taught in school?
2. Use the Oxford thingie?
3. Just use whatever seems most natural?
4. Let the editor decide if I manage to get signed at a publisher?
Well if I were so fortunate as to snag a publisher, it would be silly for me to argue grammar.
The real problem is if I go with KDP Kindle Direct Publishing where I'm pretty sure there is no human intervention between me submitting my Word MS and having it turned into .mobi or whatever format Amazon is using (AZW?).
Jeez, I never thought I would face a comma crisis as a senior citizen.
Am I obsessing? Obviously all forum posts by definition are informal grammar, or more often gross ignorance of the rules of grammar. Criticize a post and you're a pedant. (Which is at least better than being a pedophile.)
But I want to be taken seriously, either in writers' forums or in C-D's writer's forum area.
Gawd, I didn't have a mid-life crisis. Am I having my mid-life crisis late in life? And over commas?
At least I could care less about semicolons. I've never found a statement I couldn't make without requiring a semicolon.
Sometimes you use semicolons in a sentence similar to the way you would use commas to set off a series except that you need a semicolon because the series already has commas.
Example: The choices for color combinations to paint the bedrooms are green, blue, and orange; yellow, pink and maroon; or red, mauve, and black.
Then there's the most common use of a semi-colon, which I'm sure has some name, but I don't know what it is:
We don't often use semicolons; however, it is appropriate in sentences structured like this one.
***
Now, would you care to move on to hyphens? Do you know the rule of "no noun, no hyphen"? And yes, I know that is not the preferred usage of the quotation marks in the USA. DON'T JUDGE ME, DAMMIT. It's more logical, and as long as there are no editors involved, I will use the quotes inside when appropriate.
Sometimes you use semicolons in a sentence similar to the way you would use commas to set off a series except that you need a semicolon because the series already has commas.
Example: The choices for color combinations to paint the bedrooms are green, blue, and orange; yellow, pink and maroon; or red, mauve, and black.
Then there's the most common use of a semi-colon, which I'm sure has some name, but I don't know what it is:
We don't often use semicolons; however, it is appropriate in sentences structured like this one.
***
Now, would you care to move on to hyphens? Do you know the rule of "no noun, no hyphen"? And yes, I know that is not the preferred usage of the quotation marks in the USA. DON'T JUDGE ME, DAMMIT. It's more logical, and as long as there are no editors involved, I will use the quotes inside when appropriate.
Its the rule in virtually every other Anglophone country - including the land of English - England. Even in the U.S. the incidence of "logical punctuation" is increasing year by year. (Whereas the U.S. style is not increasing in prevalence anywhere...)
Your books will stand the test of time!
"That hastily-written deal, though, may have suffered from a grammatical problem. Writing in GeorgiaPol.com, Democratic aide Stefan Turkheimer notes a lack of a comma could cause legal issues.
It revolves around a provision that excludes certain on-campus spots, including 'faculty, staff, or administrative offices or rooms where disciplinary proceedings are conducted.'
The problem, Turkheimer writes, is the missing comma after the word offices. He continues:
Without that comma, it’s just two clauses both modifying 'offices or rooms.' This reading becomes even more persuasive when you consider that both of these area exceptions, if they were meant to be separate, could, and perhaps should, have been put into different clauses. That’s how 'Move on When Ready' and career academies were handled in the same bill.
So unless faculty offices are also rooms where 'disciplinary hearings are conducted', they would NOT be exempted. Let’s just ignore whether these rooms are off-limits only when they are being used for disciplinary hearings or whether they are off-limits from carrying at all times because sometimes they host disciplinary meetings (makes less sense, but that’s what the bill says)."
Back in the '60s, I was taught never to leave out the comma before the last item in a list. I cannot leave it out! It irks me to see a list without the last comma properly inserted to delineate every item; leaving it out only serves to make the writer look negligent and sloppy.
Back in the '60s, I was taught never to leave out the comma before the last item in a list. I cannot leave it out! It irks me to see a list without the last comma properly inserted to delineate every item; leaving it out only serves to make the writer look negligent and sloppy.
... and creates ambiguity that is avoided by using it.
Where did you go to school? I was told the comma was optional (public school in Georgia in the fifties and sixties), but I choose to use it.
I hate the Oxford comma. Every time I see it I'm distracted.
I'm sorry to hear that it bothers you, or distracts you, or disturbs you in any other way.
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Alas, I didn't see all that much except she had good taste in bras. 
