Is anyone out there making a living as a writer? If so, how? (library, song)

[Nala8]

Hey everyone, thanks for the ideas. Even the cynicism is helpful. lol. Tells me what kinds of negative core beliefs I would have to bypass or overcome if I were to pursue writing as a career. Best of luck to everyone.

[uptown_urbanist]

I don't think cynicism is a "negative hard core belief" that you will have to overcome. Unless you mean internal negative beliefs? Because the reality is that others aren't trying to prevent you from making a living from your art; most people are happy to see others succeed. People do get lucky and hit it big right from the start, but even many very successful writers (or at least financially successful writers) have to put a lot of time and effort into marketing, PR, signing books, etc. It's just part of the business. The publishers want you to hustle to help sell your own stuff; while everyone appreciates the art of writing, most people don't have the luxury of forgetting that it's also a business. My publisher needs me to promote my books so that I can help sell them. The publisher has people to help out with that, but the more books I can help sell the better we will both do. Writing is an art, but unless one is really, really lucky, it also has to be approached as a business. While I would prefer to do less of the boring and more of the fun, I don't think that it necessarily negatively impacts my "fun" writing to spend time doing the less exciting but better-paying work.

It sounds like with your teaching background you've already started to establish a career that revolves around writing; sometimes there are also writer-in-residency programs around that would also suit your interests and expertise in both writing and in teaching. If writing the less interesting work saps your energy (which I think in some cases could be a legitimate worry) then maybe working with kids is the ideal solution; helping others with their writing can be inspiring and refreshing, while on a bad day writing another article about construction equipment (unless you, unlike me, relish the wonders of backhoes) can leave me tired and ready to turn off the computer, a day spent working with young people on their own projects could possibly have the exact opposite effect.

[treedonkey]

Originally Posted by gkleoni1

There's a good website out there somewhere.

Really? I've come to seriously doubt that, but I do hope to find one someday.

[Nala8]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I don't think cynicism is a "negative hard core belief" that you will have to overcome. Unless you mean internal negative beliefs? Because the reality is that others aren't trying to prevent you from making a living from your art; most people are happy to see others succeed. People do get lucky and hit it big right from the start, but even many very successful writers (or at least financially successful writers) have to put a lot of time and effort into marketing, PR, signing books, etc. It's just part of the business. The publishers want you to hustle to help sell your own stuff; while everyone appreciates the art of writing, most people don't have the luxury of forgetting that it's also a business. My publisher needs me to promote my books so that I can help sell them. The publisher has people to help out with that, but the more books I can help sell the better we will both do. Writing is an art, but unless one is really, really lucky, it also has to be approached as a business. While I would prefer to do less of the boring and more of the fun, I don't think that it necessarily negatively impacts my "fun" writing to spend time doing the less exciting but better-paying work.

It sounds like with your teaching background you've already started to establish a career that revolves around writing; sometimes there are also writer-in-residency programs around that would also suit your interests and expertise in both writing and in teaching. If writing the less interesting work saps your energy (which I think in some cases could be a legitimate worry) then maybe working with kids is the ideal solution; helping others with their writing can be inspiring and refreshing, while on a bad day writing another article about construction equipment (unless you, unlike me, relish the wonders of backhoes) can leave me tired and ready to turn off the computer, a day spent working with young people on their own projects could possibly have the exact opposite effect.

Hey again. I appreciate your post and your perspective. I tend to be a pragmatic optimist, willing to put in whatever energy it takes to get the job done. I could see myself, in a sense, diversifying down the line--creating or revamping a career that involves a combination of teaching, writing articles, and writing poetry and poetic prose. I'm not sure what the good folks who responded to my thread here mean by writing for "fun." My question is about pursuing a full-time career or making a living as a writer--broadly speaking.

Thanks again for your post.

[LittleDolphin]

My current take is that it's increasingly hard to make a decent living as a free-lance writer unless you're also writing marketing communications, technical writing, PR, advertising copy, or writing for corporate Web sites.

Magazines and newspapers are cutting their free-lance budgets and laying off staff writers and reporters due to a downturn in advertising revenues.

There are a handful of top writers who support themselves writing books and for magazines, but it isn't easy.

Writing, as a craft and profession, is not one that's high paid. Never has been. Truly a case of doing it for the love and not the money...

[Nala8]

Originally Posted by LittleDolphin

My current take is that it's increasingly hard to make a decent living as a free-lance writer unless you're also writing marketing communications, technical writing, PR, advertising copy, or writing for corporate Web sites.

Magazines and newspapers are cutting their free-lance budgets and laying off staff writers and reporters due to a downturn in advertising revenues.

There are a handful of top writers who support themselves writing books and for magazines, but it isn't easy.

Writing, as a craft and profession, is not one that's high paid. Never has been. Truly a case of doing it for the love and not the money...

Thank you for your answer. Sure puts things into perspective. I appreciate it.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by LittleDolphin

My current take is that it's increasingly hard to make a decent living as a free-lance writer unless you're also writing marketing communications, technical writing, PR, advertising copy, or writing for corporate Web sites.

Magazines and newspapers are cutting their free-lance budgets and laying off staff writers and reporters due to a downturn in advertising revenues.

There are a handful of top writers who support themselves writing books and for magazines, but it isn't easy.

Writing, as a craft and profession, is not one that's high paid. Never has been. Truly a case of doing it for the love and not the money...

Advertising is the way to go. It pays well and, in good shops, requires a great deal of creativity. It also teaches you awareness of your audience at all times. Write Television and Radio and you learn dialog, not to mention the sound of words being read.

[Coldjensens]

Yes. I am a lawyer. Most of my work is writing. (Surprise - even a trial attorney spends less than 20% of their time in court). So I guess I make my living writing. Does that count?

[LittleDolphin]

Counselor, I don't believe it counts. Though you do spend a lot of time writing, your profession is in law. You're not a journalist, a novelist or a reporter. Or a free-lance writer...

I rest my case.

Rebuttal?

[Coldjensens]

Define a writer. I get paid to write. Is that not professional writing?

Today I will do nothing but write. I will get paid for it eventually. Does that fact that I also do other things on other days change that? If so then only a writer who does nothing else but write is making a living by writing? That means that there are only a few hundred writers.

Is a college professor who writes books a writer? If said college professor takes a paid sebatical for two years to write a novel, and it is published and becomes a best seller, are they making a living by writing? Or are they just a college professor who sometimes writes things?

By your definition only journalists, novelists, reporters, or free lance writers are writers? So someone who writes for a techinical magazine for a living is not a writer? They are certainly not a novelists or reporter. Maybe you would call them a journhalist. However a technical writer does not fit the standard definitions of "journalist" If a fireman writes a daily column for a newspaper are they a writer, or just a fireman who sometimes writes things? Apparently a writer must do nothing but wrtie full time, not part time with some other job. Otherwise they are just sou chefs who spend part of their time writing. If I submit an article to a newspaper and get paid $50 for it am I then a writer? But if I write a brief the next day and get paid $1500 for that I am not writing for a living?


It is a difficult definition. A waitress writes oders on her pad all day, but that does nto make her a writer. To me that is because she is paid to serve food not paid to write. If her memory was good enough she could get paid without writing. What then about a business manager who does nothing but write reports all day? Frankly, I think that he or she could say that they write for a living.
If someone writes copy for advertisments as the bulk of their work for an advertising company are they a writer? Why not?

This little exercise has led me to the realization that there may be more snobbery amongst people who call themselves writers than any other profession that I an think of (except maybe artists). Where else do you hear so much of "They do not qualify as a true writer because they do not do X" With X being whatever the person trying to make themselves feel elite does. I have heard this about technical writers, about text book writers, about an engineer who wrote a novel at night and on weekends, even about anyone who does not write fiction (journalists excluded because they mostly write fiction - for that matter, a lot of lawyers write mostly fiction - are they writers?).

You do not have to sit around in coffee shops with greasey hair and scribble on notepads all day or sagely discuss trendy artsy things with other "writers" to be a writer. Actually the best novel writer that I know personally is the engineer mentioned above who wrote a novel on weekends and at night. By my definition anyone who writes for a living is a writer. Anyone who gets paid for writing something is a writer. They do not have to be full time, they do not have to write in some particular style or for a particular employer.

The definition of a wrtier is one who writes, especially as an occupation. The bulk of my occupation is writing. I write more than most people who call themselves "writers" I get paid more for my writing than most people who call themselves "writers" The majority of my work is writing.

I would agree that is sounds funny to call me a writer. That is why I posted the original comment as a sarcastic or humourous comment. However why is one person who writes for a living a writer, while another is not? Apparently, only certain job titles qualify. Why is that?