The death of proper grammar (meaning, handwriting, library, stories)

[RosemaryT]

I strongly disagree that "we're just seeing more semi-literate people" because of the internet. I double-dog dare you to look at the pre-1970s text books from the American public schools. Children were taught spelling and composition and were forced to read the classics.

And then take a look at pre-1920s text books, such as McGuffey's Readers and that'll shock you out of your socks. The writing style used in those books is on par with what we'd call a post-graduate level.

Back in the day, our public schools taught children on a plethora of topics and those children did not advance until they achieved mastery.

My parents (born in the late 1910s) were two of the most literate, well-read people I know and they credited their grammar school years for making them that way. They were both products of the 1920s/30s Los Angeles Public Schools.

And look at the mainstream publications: They've all been dumbed down time and time again, to a lower and lower and lower reading level. Even the Wall Street Journal has dumbed down their newspaper to the 9th grade level.

About three years ago, after lots and lots of first dates, I finally met a delightful someone who could speak and write the Queen's English and I tell you - that was intoxicating. I was so enamored of the guy, I *married* him. After all, grammar snobs should marry grammar snobs.

Rose

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by RosemaryT

I strongly disagree that "we're just seeing more semi-literate people" because of the internet. I double-dog dare you to look at the pre-1970s text books from the American public schools. Children were taught spelling and composition and were forced to read the classics.

But they didn't learn it. I agree they--we--were taught it, but a lot of them didn't learn it. It was an eye-opener to me when I realized at eight I had better grammar and spelling than most adults, except for college graduates and teachers. Looking at old textbooks only tells you what was taught, not what was learned.

[WhistlerMCMLV]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

People don't write anymore. They e-mail, text, and talk on the phone. Do you remember the last time you got a letter in the mail? A real letter, written on stationary? That's got to be todays writing equivalent of vinyl records.

I used to crack up---in a sad way---when I was employed full time as a writer, in an office, and we used instant messaging rather than the telephone for immediate communication. The fractured grammar, misspellings, and appendicitis-inspired abbreviations (translation: they looked as though their creators were doubling over in pain and they were the result) and acronyms still amaze me to think about even now.

Edwin Newman once wondered (it was the subtitle of his first book on language) whether America would be the death of English. The poor man doesn't know what not living long enough to see the Internet is doing to it.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by WhistlerMCMLV

Edwin Newman once wondered (it was the subtitle of his first book on language) whether America would be the death of English. The poor man doesn't know what not living long enough to see the Internet is doing to it.

Heh. Now it has more in common with Alfred E. Neuman than Edward Newman.

[sarahkate_m]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

Everywhere I look I am inundated with it. I don't mind a minor flaw here or there in writing. But, I consistently see horrific misspellings, run-on sentences, lack of paragraph structuring, incoherent themes, etc.. What makes me cringe the most is when somebody presents themself as being educated and their post looks like it was written by a third grader.

What has happened to our educational system?

It went down the poop chute along with teaching phonetics & diagramming sentences.

Also, 100 years ago, children learned much more before 6th grade than they do now.

[city_data91]

What bothers you people the most when it comes to bad grammar? My biggest grammar pet peeve is when people write a long run-on sentence with no punctuation whatsoever.

[whoisjongalt]

I'm still thankful for my 9th grade English teacher. She made us diagram sentences, read Shakespeare aloud, and take lecture notes. We then had to re-write all of our notes in FOUNTAIN PEN with no mistakes! Our final was an oral exam in the school auditorium. I was able to test out of college English because of her.

[CMMom]

I teach undergraduates online. If I had a dollar for each of the following mistakes I see each week, I would be a very, very rich person:

1) confusion between "there," "their," and "they're."
2) confusion between "your" and "you're."
3) confusion between "which" and "witch" (I couldn't make this up!)
4) confusion between "whether" and "weather" (again, I couldn't make this up)
5) and, finally, the coup de gras, use of the word "defiantly" for "definitely" (I HATE this one with the fire of 10,000 suns!).

Do kids in high school even have to write anything anymore? Some of what I see in undergraduates makes me want to throw myself off the nearest bridge, truly. What is going on in American high schools (and middle schools)?

[ChrisC]

One common problem today is improper use (or lack of use) of the subjunctive mood. Many people don't even know it exists in English, let alone understand its proper use.

[j_k_k]

Originally Posted by ChrisC

One common problem today is improper use (or lack of use) of the subjunctive mood. Many people don't even know it exists in English, let alone understand its proper use.

Yeah, but worrying about that is like worrying about the cherry on top of the dessert when the actual dinner meat is full of maggots and the appetizer is sawdust. You should wish that the population wrote and spelled and spoke English well enough for distinctions like the subjunctive to matter. I'd sacrifice the subjunctive on an altar with purple flames if I could exchange it for a broad-based social consensus that spelling and grammar even mattered, which we currently lack or we would not need to lament about it.