Horse trainer/farrier moving with horses to Wyoming or Montana?

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by DQHollywood

Ok, so let me get this straight.... Unless I am John Lyons, or have a Olympic gold medal hanging around my neck..... I don't stand a chance.
Basicly every Tom, Dick, and Harry is a "horse trainer" in Wyoming.
So, do we hire on with a rancher or go muck stalls somewhere? I have Morgans myself, and my specialty is Dressage, but I guess that doesn't matter. I can pitch **** during the day.... and then put my breeches and top hat on for a weekend show....

You are correct, to a great extent ... that "every Tom, Dick, and Harry" around here fancies themselves either an accomplished horse trainer/riding instructor, top notch horse breeder, and so forth. I've seen breeders around here with all the chrome and flash in their top stallions ... who consistently throw clubfooted progeny ... but the breeder thinks that they've got a great line of horses.

I've got two neighbors who have strings of horses, probably totalling in excess of 300 horses, each, running loose on sections of land they own nearby. They get no care whatsoever except to be trimmed once or twice a year.

I've got another neighbor who is from VA, who thinks miniatures are the ticket ... and has a "$100,000" championship lines stallion ... who has a few other horses on his place, and he does all his own vet'ting and trimming. I don't know what he's doing for activity with that valuable stallion ... the last lady we knew that had mini's around here abandoned the herd (over 45 horses) on our place a couple of years ago, all needing serious vet care and farrier attention. Several had to be put down immediately, two were so lame from laminitis that they never recovered, one died while standing in our creek ... and it took my wife over a year to place all but the top stallion in humane situations where they'd get care. The stallion, we couldn't place anywhere, so we took care of him until he died last year from old age.

There's little demand for riding instruction among the adult locals. Whether or not they are, in fact, good riders by your standards ... simply isn't an issue. They think they're great riders, and get all the utility out of their horses that they expect. They're satisfied, and they sure as he!! aren't going to pay you to teach them to do something else or better with their horses. Even the "name" clinicians don't do much activity in this area; without even that cachet, you won't be finding many paying students.

I brought in a number of the name "natural horsemanship" clinicians into the area, and they received very limited response. While I personally benefitted from the riding instruction, and a number of students believed in the concepts and methods ... you won't find "natural" taught at the UW or community college programs. Nor will you find it to be the style of riding that is at most dude ranches ....

When I'm out on group trail rides, I practically get laughed out of the group because I'm the guy riding with a soft halter and lead rope ... I'm not using spurs and martingales and aggressive bits and such. The "western" style is so pervasive that you'll see the cowboys (and would-be cowboys) around here showing off their boots and spurs, even if they're in town on a shopping trip .... I watched several real working cowboys at a ranch auction last month in Laramie jingle around the place with their chaps, boots, spurs, and the huge belt buckles. It was kinda' comical, but they thought they were "cool" among their own group.

I had a number of barn clients who were dressage riders, and ... for a short time ... a barn manager who was a top ranked regional dressage rider. Also, a client who had imported top Hanoverian and Westphalian stock from Europe, and had young daughters who had visions of making it to the Olympic team. My barn manager quit to pursue advancing her riding skills with a top dressage trainer in the Longmont, CO, area ... and my client with the huge investment in imported dressage horses and facilities here sold all at distress prices when her daughters lost interest in dressage because their boyfriends were rodeo type riders. I'm not saying that there isn't interest in dressage and jumping events around the area, because there are folk who have horses for these events and enjoy this type of riding ... but they are a very small percentage of what passes for equine activity around here. You'll have few, if any, chances to put on your "breeches and top hat" in the evenings around here. My wife's dressage saddles, tack, and riding habit haven't seen the light of day from our tack room in 20 years ... and she was a top collegiate dressage rider for a few years on her Warmbloods, having started dressage riding in junior high. She put herself through college as the summer barn manager/trainer for a girls' camp in Northern Wisconsin, where she taught dressage and general horsemanship skills ... and got to do the horse care and stall maintenance, too.

Awhile back, when I still had the riding center ... I needed a well broke bombproof trail horse for one of my barn client's kids. I had another neighbor (a lawyer) who fancied himself a Morgan breeder/trainer par excellence ... who had the "perfect" horse for us to buy from his herd of horses, sired by another champion Morgan stallion brought down from Canada. It had been his daughter's first horse, was a 14 year old gelding ... been there, done that type of trail horse. So I rode the horse around a bit, and it's kinda' OK ... very barn sour and pampered pet. I'd been assured that his daughter had ridden it in the Dandies (a local Wyoming kid's group of riders), which meant that the horse had been trailered to town a lot. So I go to load it in my two-horse straight load trailer. It won't load, won't respond to my ask ... and it won't load for the owners, either, much to their distress. I came to find out that it had only ever been loaded into a large stock trailer by leading it into the trailer, and leading it out. Sorry, but for a top dollar kid's horse, this won't work until it's trained to load in the trailer that the folks will be using. They never were able to train it to load, but they called me every week for months to inquire if I still wanted that horse.

Personally, I prefer Morgans and they've been my breed of choice ever since I got into riding. If you are knowledgeable about Morgans, in general, then you'll recognize some of the top breed lines of old gov't type out here in the region. Indeed, a World Champion, from the Paris events of some years ago ... MM Lyndon, from Mears Morgans out of Laramie ... created quite a shock to Morgan breeders/trainers from other areas of the USA. My own nationally top 5 ranked driving/dressage/jumper Morgan, Destiny, was bred and raised in the Parker, CO, area. Even in his 20's, he could go past just about every quarter horse around here ... and when the quarter horses were done for the day, he was still going for many more hours on the trails.

I've got new neighbors from Wisconsin who fancy themselves quarter horse breeders and trainers. We needed a hand a few weeks ago rounding up some stray cows for another neighbor that had gone over our fences. My neighbor jumped at the opportunity to actually ride some cows ... and he and his wife showed up dressed to the nines like drugstore cowboys, ready to go to work. Their horses did great going across the pastures until it was time to follow the cows across the creek. We found out that neither they or their horses had even crossed running water, and their horses would not do so in 15" of water depth. My wife had to saddle up one of our old trail Morgans and he crossed the creek without any hesitation, as he's done for me for so many years.

Anyway, you will find a number of dressage barns along the Front Range of Colorado, and into that Parker and SEast of Denver area and into Colorado Springs there's some high dollar operations into that type of riding. But you won't find that type of activity here in the SE Wyoming area except in a very few private barns and at LCCC or UW barns.

Knowing the high school and college age kids of my neighbors, who are also looking for income at the farm/ranch work they can do ... you won't find much opportunity to shovel shi*, either ... at a wage where you'll justify your time and effort.

I might also mention that we've got family friends here who are well seasoned/experienced professional horse trainers/breeders. His experience goes back to the days of teaching Parelli before he was "Parelli", being Pat's mentor for several years in the horse training game. These folks are hard workers, dedicated, and know how "to ride for the brand" every day. They've had several ranch management jobs across Wyoming ... with housing, a side of beef, vehicles, medical insurance, and a modest salary. At each and every job, they've either been required to put in 80-100 hour weeks (each!) to meet the requirements of the job needs, or ... like the last place they were at in NW Wyoming, told that they were no longer needed because the ranch owner decided to quit the "dude ranch" riding operation or that the owner was getting out of ranching altogether and didn't need the couple on site. None of their jobs ever paid over $3,500 per month for him .... He's now 50 years old, a superb horse trainer and barn/ranch manager ... knows nothing else, but is physically beat up from all the wrecks and riding over the years. He really can't continue to ride for a living, has no savings, no retirement ... and doesn't have the market savvy or presence to teach riding. Without credentials, he can't get a job at the U. When he heals up from his most recent surgeries, he's not going to be able to go back to a ranch job. $3,500 sounded like a lot of money until you realize it's a dead end job, and it's less than $5/hour for all the work 24/7/365 that it took to do.

Some here will label me as "gloom and doom" about making money in the equine biz here. I challenge them to speak from actual knowledge and experience instead of suggesting generalities and possibilities. How about some actual jobs or contact information? How about some real experience in making money in this business? I got involved, invested a lot of cash and time ... and found out the hard way ... it's not a money maker around here when you're competing against folk who have plenty of land to run their horses on "for free" most of the year, or expect that you can provide facilities for less than your operating cost in the winter months. Horses are a lifestyle ... not a moneymaker; especially now that the market is flooded with abandoned horses or horses from folks that can't afford them anymore in the current economy.

Further ... I don't believe I've seen any of you at the Wyoming Livestock Board meetings in Cheyenne (or on the remote sites) getting involved in the current state of equine affairs in Wyoming. It's a sorry situation right now with horses in distress, and it's costing the state a lot of money they don't have for estray or abandoned horses. Absent a big change in the equine industry in the near term, there's little money in the area for horses right now. Especially if you think you're going to be well received teaching/training to a market segment that doesn't have a lot of money or interest in your product at this time.

[jody_wy]

Almost every community has an equine 4-H club; they get some one on the cheap to help out for a clinic. FFA went back with equine projects, back in my day it was hard to get FFA to class horse projects.

Seem everybody that has a riding job that everybody wants them to take a colt even if just to pack salt. Like how one guy handle it. Told them have the horse in the barn my kid will come by early every morning put a good half hour on it for $20/day, there were no takers.
Our permit is right out the gate, but if we trailer to the far end after the horses are out of the trailer then the chaps (depends on weather, brush or work) and spurs go on, they all come off when back to the truck or barn. Always wondered how someone drives the truck with spurs on.
We bucked out a horse at the Jackson rodeo last month, there had been a Wyoming Jr. Rodeo that afternoon and a horse show in the indoor arena before the rodeo.... gee half the rodeo audience was wearing spurs.
WE did wear buckles when we went to Yellowstone yesterday..... Mine was for Adult sheep showmanship and the big Dinner plate my daughter wore was a round robin showmen ship, everybody thought she was a can racer.

There is a horse outfit here has riders work the horses every day, they use immigrant labor for the mucking. The rental dude out fit has around 1000 horse, non of which have seen the inside of a barn, they try to ride down most of them early spring before they head out to the pack trips and dude strings, they have a contract with a shoer keeps a tip table right at the main place.

[pjp88029]

Sunsprit,

Even though I am posting this 9 years after you gave your local business information to the OP, I just wanted to let youi know that I think that what you wrote is one of THE BEST responses to someone seeking info, and that I have ever read anywhere.

Kudos to you Sunsprit, for being such a reliable, thorough, thoughtful and accurate source without ANY nastiness or sarcasm that 98% of people who write on the internet just can't resist.

A rare quality indeed.