Hats off to all 60's Bra-burners! NOT! (appointed, health insurance)

[thermalbat]

The New York Times reports that young women in the biggest U.S. cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to recent census data.

In New York, women of all educational levels from 21 to 30 working full time made 117 percent of men's wages. The gals made 120 percent in Dallas, and do more modestly better than guys in Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis and a few other big cities. But nationwide, young women made much less: 89 percent of the average full-time pay for men.

The reasons are a little mysterious, but they seem to have something to do with the fact that women are, apparently, smarter. That is to say, in 2005, 53 percent of women in their 20s working in New York were college graduates, compared with only 38 percent of men that age.

[wyolady]

Some definite strong opinions here. I don't "subscribe" to the woman's movement per se, but don't believe that movement is the reason we are where we are. Quite frankly, I'm proud of where women have come. We still makes like 74 cents to a man's dollar, but I figure decades ago we made 50 cents. And I also understand why women work - single parent families being at least one reason. I waited until I was 33 and 36 to have my kids and I work, although was blessed with a stay-at-home dad for part of the 2nd one.

As a school teacher, I see parents argue daily that problem kids come from homes where parents work, when in reality over-indulged kids create just as many problems. But I digress...

Someone posted that males are more likely to ask for leeway from a boss than females are - have to share a story to perhaps explain why.

I used to live in Laramie and taught at a public secondary school (I'm hesitant to identify either HS or JH because you'll then know the culprit.). Anywho, my hubby was working out of town for the RR and we had parent teacher conferences coming up from 4-8pm one evening. I told my Assistant Principal, who was a male, that I would need to leave right after school at 3:15pm to get my daughter from daycare and run her to a friend's house for the conferences. He seemed disgusted and asked why couldn't I get someone else to do that for me. I pointed out that I would be back in time for conferences, which I was.

Later the same evening during conferences, I visited his office for business. He wasn't there - he'd had to leave conferences to attend his own son's parent/teacher conference at another school. Wow - okay for his parenting to interfere with work, but not mine?!?!?!?!

[wyomamatobe]

I have been viewing this forum for quite awhile as we are moving to WY soon. This post actually got me to register!! Amen, sister, amen and amen and amen.

I'm only 37 but I would NEVER leave my kids with anyone else to care for them. We homeschool and have a home business. My girls are being taught to be keepers at home and my boy is being taught to be a man and work hard. Someone mentioned single moms as being a big reason for daycare -- there would be less single moms if they were back in the home taking care of the family and not out in the world being tempted by everything they see. The grass is always greener on the other side - till they get there. Between no-fault divorce and the women's movement pulling women out of the home that is what caused more single moms to have to work. Trust me, when you ain't around other men, there's a whole lot less temptation to thinking yours isn't perfect enough for you anymore.

We are excited and anxious to get out of Oregon and to a state that is freer, more conservative and has MUCH drier weather!

Good subject. Wonder how many others of us are out there?

[wyolady]

Wow - your post lays all of the blame for single families on women. I work full-time and have never, ever, ever considered what I experience in the workplace as temptation to divorce my man. Perhaps I'm not paying attention?

However, as a true Wyomingite, I welcome you to our state. We are drier, freer, but please don't believe we are so much more conservative. We are a state that accepts diversity - diversity in all forms. We don't believe our own personal opinion is the only one out there, we don't try to impose our lifestyle on others, whatever it may be, we don't judge others who are different from us as being wrong, only as being different, and we certainly don't stereotype people as all being the same just because we don't understand them.

As a public school teacher, I invite you to also try our public schools in WY - many of them are of very high-quality and definitely teach students that there are people out there different from them and how to celebrate and appreciate our differences.

My personal experience has taught me that when people criticize and judge others harshly, it says much more about those doing the judging than about those being judged.

[jdavid93225]

Well, this certainly is an interesting subject, but one that I feel is worth tossing my 2 cents into. I feel that the women's movement of the 60s and 70s has brought about some very undesirable results.

The biggest problem that I see that came from this has to do with parenting, or the lack thereof. Since the women behind that movement essentially decided that a woman's place was at work, and not so much in the home, the kids were left with someone other than the mother to raise them, and to discipline them when they needed it. Remember the old phrase "wait 'til your father gets home?" The mother could discipline the kids, but on the big things, well, that was Dad's job. Now that the kids are in daycare instead of at home, the adults in charge of them can't discipline them because our laws were written in such a way that they would get into legal trouble for doing so.

Some parents can't afford to send their kids to daycare, so the kids are supposed to go home each day. This doesn't always happen, and the kids hang out with other kids, often resulting in trouble. When none of them have a Mom at home to watch out for them, they get into things they shouldn't. This is particularly true in the bigger cities where gangs seem to be the thing drawing these kids in.


In the days when mothers stayed home, not only could they care for their own children, but they also watched out for other kids, as well as keeping an eye on their neighborhood. Moms would get out and visit with other moms during the day, and became much more connected in their community.

I have lived in places where every adult on my block worked full time, and places where there were moms and a few retirees on my block. I would much prefer the latter, because it is much easier to get to know your neighbors when they're not worn out from working all the time. As you get to know them, you build a relationship, and realize that many times, these people are looking out for you and your family. They will call you to let you know when something isn't right, like when a strange vehicle passes through the area several times (possibly for nefarious reasons), or when a bear has come into the neighborhood to raid people's trash. I like knowing that there are others that I trust keeping an eye on things when I'm away.

I think it is a privilege for me to be able to be the sole supporter of my family, so my wife can stay at home with the kids. I have had the benefit of never needing to have my wife work outside the home, but don't know how I'd feel if I needed her to do so in order to make ends meet. I think I would feel inadequate if I weren't able to provide for my family's financial needs on my own. It is my job to meet that financial obligation for my family. In much the same way, though, it's my wife's responsibility to provide for many of the emotional needs of the family, and to help with the parenting of the children when I'm off at work. She also has plenty of things to do around the house to keep her busy, and that is also part of her responsibility.

Men and women have different roles in life and in marriage. I think the womens movement has skewed the perspective that most people have of these roles. In a truly equal society, there would be no bosses, and there would be no subordinates. There would also be no order. Where people need to realize equality is in the area of opportunity. This in no way guarantees equality of outcome, but allows those who are driven to succeed to have the availability of opportunity to do so. I have seen school systems that have tried to equalize the education received by students. This has succeeded only in bringing the good students down to a level equal to that of the poor ones. Again, we need to have equal opportunity, but should never expect equal results.

[wolfcreekgal]

Wow, I had no idea so many people feel like I do! I commend you, Rawethe. You sound like a very strong young woman and I'm sure you will do very well.

My original point was that, due to women's rights movement, a one income household can barely make ends meet anymore. I WAS one of those single women trying to raise two children on a small salary. I was very fortunate to meet my husband. He has proven to me that chivalry is not dead and buried.

[wolfcreekgal]

Jdavid93225, WOW! Your thought patterns directly correlate with my own. I was raised by both of my parents and my mom stayed at home. So, for that matter, did all the women in my family. The men brought home the bacon and the women fried it up in a pan. When that changed, so did the entire world as we knew it.

[Earniefan]

Wyolady, if you've been married for any amount of time then you well know that the woman lays the ground work for the marriage. If she's a naggin' you can bet her husband's not at home. If she's providing a place of refuse for him to escape the everyday stresses of work and life, then it's a place he'll want to be. Just a small example of how this works. I believe this is the idea that Wyomamatobe is trying to get at.

[jdumars]

I also agree that the mom should be in the home. My Mom worked, was a school teacher, so she was home soon after we got home from school. We, also had an older woman who came into our home to do light house keeping and to care for the younger siblings. She was paid less than a typical daycare is paid today, but it was wonderful to be able to go home and have the cleaning and even dinner ready. It was a big help for my Mom who had five of us to care for. Now, we are talking in the 60's. I am 50, but I was was a stay at home mom, for the most part. I loved being able to go on field trips with the kids, volunteer in the class, attend to a sick child, clean, cook, etc. I was there when my husband came home. I don't bow to the man, but I do have a respect for the work and the position the man holds in the family unit. Decision's should be made together, but he would have the final say in my family.

You have to have two people work today to make a living....but is that because we think we need to "have" all the high end tvs, cars, games, etc? To keep up with the Jones? Big fancy homes, furniture, etc? Usually at least half of the woman's salary goes for child care as it is........which brings up another subject...

Why do the child care centers have to charge such an outrageous amount? Not just the centers, but individuals who also care for kids? I know those that even charge for the hours the child isn't there. You pick the child up early and still have to pay for the full day. Home sitters that take a vacation each year and you still pay for that week!!! I feel that the "child care" system is totally taking advantage of the people that have to have them.
If expenses could be cut in a household, then maybe more mom's could stay at home and not have to feed into the child care provider system.

I know there are many single parents, I became one, my two daughters are, and child care becomes the answer. I have had the privilege of caring for my grandchildren..I don't want to see them in day care.

Maybe we could have a community care system where we help each other out...you watch mine, I'll watch yours....just a thought.

[wolfcreekgal]

I'd like to clarify something here. By posting my original message I, in no way, meant to offend working women. Nor did I mean to come across as being judgemental. I too, was a working woman at one point and not because I strayed from husband and he divorced me. Actually, it was the other way around.
However, there is no question in my mind that today's kids are suffering as a result of mom joining the work force. When I worked outside the home, I was hard-pressed to find great child care facilities. When my son was four, he fell off a swing at a daycare and broke his arm. Mind you, this was a state accredited center, but no one was watching my son at the time. Another problem I have with daycare is this.......my kids were always coming home sick. I even came to pick my son up one day to find a childcare worker cuddling a very sick little boy. He has strep throat she said. I'm thinking....what? His mother left him here? Not to mention the fact that strep is VERY contagious! It left a very bad taste in my mouth.