Hats off to all 60's Bra-burners! NOT! (Sheridan: daycare, how much)

[wyolady]

Originally Posted by Earniefan

Wyolady, if you've been married for any amount of time then you well know that the woman lays the ground work for the marriage. If she's a naggin' you can bet her husband's not at home. If she's providing a place of refuse for him to escape the everyday stresses of work and life, then it's a place he'll want to be. Just a small example of how this works. I believe this is the idea that Wyomamatobe is trying to get at.

Earniefan, I've been lurking in these boards for a while and have been impressed with many of your posts, especially those about the diversity of people in Wyoming. But I must say I'm surprised by your comment that I should "know that the woman lays the ground work for the marriage". I have been married for some time, but certainly don't believe this. I believe we both have responsibility for "laying the groundwork for a marriage", perhaps why mine is working so well. Do you then believe if a marriage doesn't work out, the responsibility lies with the woman?

Everyone here is describing one traditional scenario for a marriage with a working man coming home to a refuse (created by the wife) to escape the stresses at work. My hubby was injured while working for the railroad years ago, is disabled and stayed home with my youngest daughter and is still home. I am the primary breadwinner - what should my responsibility be here?

I am a bit surprised to see so many posters ready to "put women in their place", although I am a bit relieved to notice that some of you don't live in WY.

[wolfcreekgal]

wyolady, Many of us, men and women both, have strayed drastically from biblicle principles. God tells us a woman's place is in her home caring for her family. In your circumstance, you had no choice but to do what you are doing and I think you're a hell of a strong lady.
When I got divorced, I too, had no choice but to go out and work to support my kids. Somebody has to provide food and pay the bills, right?
I must say though, my opinions are by no means shared by myself alone as is readily apparent by the posts here. I've talked to many young girls who'd like nothing more than to stay home when they marry and raise there children. Sadly, this will probably not be possible. Boys of today are being reared to just expect to let the girls take the rein. Like the wonderful lady here who homeschools, I'm raising my sons to take back the reins God gave them. To be like King Solomon and treat their women like the gifts they are. I am raising my sons to behave like men, but still express their sensitive side when the need arises.

I hope you won't be disappointed to know I will soon be a resident of your great state.

[wolfcreekgal]

Erniefan, I TOTALLY agree with you. If a married fella has to come home to nothin' but gripin' why come home at all? My man works his rear off and comes home to a listening ear and praise. He likes to vent about his day and I not only listen, but also tell him how special he is. He loves it even though he's a tough guy and swears he doesn't need praise. We all do.

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by Earniefan

rawethe, I waited to have children until I was 28 years old so that I would be able to stay home with them. Everyone has the option to make that choice. I find it very irresponsible to have children before you're ready to make the adjustments to your life that they deserve for you to make.

Funny you should say that, I turned 28 this year and I am just graduating with my masters degree and 45,000 in school loans. Crazy, I know, but if you knew my life story you would know why I ended up with depending on loans and not parental help. Unfortunately unless I marry someone who has the finances to pay on my loans I wouldn't be able to stay home with my children at this time. However I do agree that people shouldn't go into parenting without being prepared. However I also know many people who would have never been able to have children if they waited until they could afford it.

Overall though...I agree.

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by Earniefan

Part of the reason for this is: Men will go to their boss and say hey I'm working my butt off here, how about a little compensation. Women are not as inclined to do this.

I don't know that I agree. That's a pretty blanket statement about personality styles...

[wyolady]

I absolutely welcome you as a resident to our wonderful state. I understand there are diverse opinions out there on this issue and I welcome the discussion, not only for others to understand me more but for me to understand others more as well. I think you'll love Wyoming, for all the reasons you'll find posted on this entire board: scenery, values, freedoms, and acceptance by others.

This might surprise you but I am too a Christian. I probably believe more like you than unlike you. I simply have seen too much hatred, judgment and war in the name of religion and know that my spirituality doesn't give me the right to criticize or judge anyone unlike myself.

If we adhere strictly to biblical principles, women wouldn't be allowed in any position of power or education in churches, as in biblical times. I personally believe we ladies have a lot to offer and don't think just because something worked ideally in biblical times, that it will work for everyone of every generation.

Again, Wolfcreekgal, I welcome you. I hope your move goes well and WY is everything you hope it to be. I believe it will

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by thermalbat

The New York Times reports that young women in the biggest U.S. cities who work full time have forged ahead of men in wages, according to recent census data.

In New York, women of all educational levels from 21 to 30 working full time made 117 percent of men's wages. The gals made 120 percent in Dallas, and do more modestly better than guys in Chicago, Boston, Minneapolis and a few other big cities. But nationwide, young women made much less: 89 percent of the average full-time pay for men.

The reasons are a little mysterious, but they seem to have something to do with the fact that women are, apparently, smarter. That is to say, in 2005, 53 percent of women in their 20s working in New York were college graduates, compared with only 38 percent of men that age.

"An Aug. 26 report from the U.S. Census Bureau stated that the median female full-time wage for women was 75.5 cents for every dollar similarly earned by men; that’s down .6 percent from 2002."

-U.S. Census Bureau. (2004). Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance in the United States. Retrieved August 3, 2007 from http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p60-226.pdf.

Do you know where the New York Times got their research? I'm sure they didn't do it themselves like most newspapers. Educationally Newspapers are usually not accepted as research as they are often biased. However the U.S. Census Bureau does it's own research and is usually accepted as an unbiased statistic.

I appreciate the time you took to look that up though...a lot of people don't often back their opinions with any research.

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by wyolady

Wow - your post lays all of the blame for single families on women. I work full-time and have never, ever, ever considered what I experience in the workplace as temptation to divorce my man. Perhaps I'm not paying attention?

However, as a true Wyomingite, I welcome you to our state. We are drier, freer, but please don't believe we are so much more conservative. We are a state that accepts diversity - diversity in all forms. We don't believe our own personal opinion is the only one out there, we don't try to impose our lifestyle on others, whatever it may be, we don't judge others who are different from us as being wrong, only as being different, and we certainly don't stereotype people as all being the same just because we don't understand them.

As a public school teacher, I invite you to also try our public schools in WY - many of them are of very high-quality and definitely teach students that there are people out there different from them and how to celebrate and appreciate our differences.

My personal experience has taught me that when people criticize and judge others harshly, it says much more about those doing the judging than about those being judged.

I like you!!!!! I am actually comming for a final interview to possibly move to Wyoming...Man if everyone in town were like you...

Anyhow, I do have to mention...I have worked as a nanny through an agency here in St. Louis which has gotten me through college. I have seen those families who definitly needed their parents home more...however I have also seen the families who has a stay at home parent and really had very little quality time with their parents. It's unfortunate that there can be so many parents out there who just don't know how to be parents. However when it comes to the choice between staying at home or working I don't think that is the main factor on being a good parent. Parenting is soooo much more...

By the way as a social worker I work with young people from broken families everyday. I often see youth that come from families with stay at home parents quite often...sad, but true.

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by wolfcreekgal

Wow, I had no idea so many people feel like I do! I commend you, Rawethe. You sound like a very strong young woman and I'm sure you will do very well.

My original point was that, due to women's rights movement, a one income household can barely make ends meet anymore. I WAS one of those single women trying to raise two children on a small salary. I was very fortunate to meet my husband. He has proven to me that chivalry is not dead and buried.

Thank you! And I truly agree with you. I would LOVE to one day meet and fall in love with a man very much like that.

[rawethe]

Originally Posted by jdavid93225

Where people need to realize equality is in the area of opportunity. This in no way guarantees equality of outcome, but allows those who are driven to succeed to have the availability of opportunity to do so. I have seen school systems that have tried to equalize the education received by students. This has succeeded only in bringing the good students down to a level equal to that of the poor ones. Again, we need to have equal opportunity, but should never expect equal results.

I agree very much so...however I do think that in order to have equal opportunity you must also have assistance in order to access that opportunity. While I have seen and understand what some might consider "welfare dependance" (and agree that it exhists) I also know that if you do not have internet access, a phone, or even an address to list on a resume, application, or similar stuff it can be very difficult to access that opportunity.

But, believe it or not I do agree with a huge portion of what you said! And thanks for adding the great response from a man! Awesome to see perspectives from both sides (and well done too).