agents?? Know a good one? (Cody, Powell: mineral rights, sales, real estate)

[Skyfire]

Look to move my family and I out to Wy. We are looking to be around the Cody area. We want to be close to Fishing , hunting, and land to have our own farm to support our family. Planning on living off the grid. and building our own homes. I think i need a realestate agent to find us some places before we make a trip out there. Can anyone give me Names of agents they know and trust. Names, phone numbers and webpages please! would like to make a tripout there before the end of the year. It just makes more sence to me to have places set up to look at before we go out there.

[WyoNewk]

Have you been to Cody before? There's not much in the way of farms.

[sunsprit]

I'd advise you to use the search feature on C-D and check out all of the issues about buying raw land in Wyoming ... agents/agencies, water rights, soils, climate, and so forth.

These concerns are more complex than simply saying "I want to move to Wyoming", and you must do your own due diligence to know what you are buying and have reasonable expectations re "living off the land" and "supporting my family". It's much more difficult to do here than in many other states with riparian climates, ready water availability, and better soils.

I would also advise you to come visit the general areas of Wyoming that interest you in the winter months before making any purchase decision ... not just Nov/Dec, but Feb/March. You may be in for a rude shock as to the realities of (off-grid) living here compared to your idyllic wishes of a bee-loud glade in a forest.

And finally, I'll repeat what I've posted here for years: Do NOT take the representations, or lack of them, from any real estate agent as complete and truthful. The degree of professionalism that you may have come to expect from agents in other states does not exist here. Further, do not make any assumptions about land/water/soils/climate based upon what you know about real estate in other states. You must perform your own due diligence regarding every aspect of a land purchase ... right down to property lines, easements, mineral rights/development, utilities, supporting services (fire, police/sheriff), and so forth. A real estate agent in Wyoming can be counted on to write a sales contract and hold their hand out for the earned commission from a closing ... but little else. At least, that's been my experience across Wyoming in trying to do real estate purchases ... and I've been to small agencies, larger agencies, dealt with the "top producer" ... you name it, they've all been consistently poor and indifferent in their services. They will allow you to make assumptions based upon what you know from other states/real estate deals which they know aren't correct, but if your assumptions lead to a closing, they will not interfere with what you've assumed by giving you facts.

Be especially wary about water rights and availability. An agent may be thrilled to show you a live stream that flows through a property (which may be seasonal or year-round), but will be reluctant to discuss your water rights to use any of it for beneficial purposes. You MUST check with the State Engineer's office about any specific land parcel and the water rights which run with it. You may discover that the beautiful chock-full-of-fish stream gives you the use of not one drop of water for irrigation ... which is rather needed for a productive farm in a climate zone where it's not uncommon to see only 10-12" of moisture per year.

Don't forget to ask specifically about seasonal access/ingress/egress to the property, as well as know what your access rights are. If you are traveling over non maintained roads, winter time access may be difficult ... and you may be on other than public roads; know your easement rights, if any.

I'll second the post above ... Cody is ranching country and not generally considered farming country. A lot will depend upon the scale of farming you think you need to do ... is this just an independence garden for your own consumption, or are you planning on farming as a source of income for your family?

[Hawknest]

They call them ranches, but most are farms that grow hay, alfalfa, beans, barley and sugar beets. Only a few are left that raise beef solely. I will pm you the agent we used to buy/sell in Cody and Powell.

[sunsprit]

I just did an MLS search in the Cody area.

I knew asking prices for ranches with irrigated farmland were high in that area due to the attractiveness of the scenery, hunting/fishing, and private land outdoor recreation with access to public lands ... but finding properties at $10,000 per acre was beyond my expectations. And none of them were small tracts ... There's no way these properties have productive value approaching the cost of acquiring them.

You should also be careful to understand that many farms/ranches in Wyoming are represented on the basis of total acreage of the operation ... but that there may only be a portion of the land that is "deeded", ie, owned fee simple by the ranch. The balance of the operation may be federal, state, or local leased lands which do not necessarily carry a guarantee that you will be the next leaseholder when the existing lease rights expire and are up for renewal. Also, due to tax purposes, many ranches/farms will have conditions attached that limit future use ... conservation easements are among these situations. Again, due diligence about what you are actually purchasing is paramount to a good purchase in Wyoming.

Understand, too, that a water right does not assure functional water delivery. You need to have a good historical record of actual water delivered to a property for use, especially in light of the weather patterns and droughts of the last decade. We've had an exceptional moisture season 2010-2011, but don't assume that it is the norm for the area.

Perhaps Hawknest had a good experience with a competent real estate agent in the area, and you'll be getting competent professional assistance in your search. That would be quite unlike what I've experienced anywhere in Wyoming over the last 15 years of my land purchases ... good luck. Do your due diligence so that you have no surprises in your purchase here.

[georgiainwyo]

You can get a hold of a friend of mine who has been helping us with properties in the Cody area. His name is Jeff Parsons, he is available at Prudential Brokerage West......Cody Wyoming Real Estate Listings and Home Sales. Tell him that Georgia sent you!

[Hawknest]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

You should also be careful to understand that many farms/ranches in Wyoming are represented on the basis of total acreage of the operation ... but that there may only be a portion of the land that is "deeded", ie, owned fee simple by the ranch. The balance of the operation may be federal, state, or local leased lands which do not necessarily carry a guarantee that you will be the next leaseholder when the existing lease rights expire and are up for renewal. Also, due to tax purposes, many ranches/farms will have conditions attached that limit future use ... conservation easements are among these situations. Again, due diligence about what you are actually purchasing is paramount to a good purchase in Wyoming.

The people I used did a proper 1031 rollover and we were careful to make sure the land was deeded and not leased. Us foreigners cannot legally have leased (State, BLM) land transferred to us.

Understand, too, that a water right does not assure functional water delivery. You need to have a good historical record of actual water delivered to a property for use, especially in light of the weather patterns and droughts of the last decade. We've had an exceptional moisture season 2010-2011, but don't assume that it is the norm for the area.

If you have springs on your land, as we did, the water rights are transferable - a good agent knows how to do this. A good land attorney is needed to make sure there are no errors, unless they are in your favour.

Perhaps Hawknest had a good experience with a competent real estate agent in the area, and you'll be getting competent professional assistance in your search.

We've had good along with the bad. Those that I PM'd you are the best in Park County. Our acreage on the Lower South Fork was alfalfa for livestock. Our acreage in Powell and Worland raised barley for Coors and sugar beets.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by Hawknest

If you have springs on your land, as we did, the water rights are transferable - a good agent knows how to do this. A good land attorney is needed to make sure there are no errors, unless they are in your favour.

Yes ... and No.

Water use rights in Wyoming are assigned to specific land, and run with the property. So they are transferable to the new owner of the land.

But be very certain that the water rights of water that originates on a piece of property in fact are assigned to that piece of property.

You may well find that headwaters or springs on one piece of property have no water rights assigned to that piece of property, but the rights are owned by others downstream. You'd be able to look at the water, but not able to put it to any use whatsoever on your piece of property.

This is a very complicated issue in Wyoming, as the State owns ALL the water in this state, and adjudicates water use rights through the state engineer's office. Or, for those of us with parcels that pre-date Wyoming statehood, the water rights were assigned through the territorial courts and the priority of assignment is by the date of the filing. First filed is senior to those who showed up later on; hence territorial water rights can be senior to state engineer awarded rights, but that's not absolute. You must check with the state engineer's office and/or your regional water commissioner to verify what water rights you may be buying and their seniority in the system.

FWIW, a "good land attorney" isn't the specialty you need to consult with these issues, but a "water rights attorney" is. There are consulting companies that can assist with these issues, too, to clarify what rights and functional availability of water exist for a given parcel of land.

If you need water for your operations, this may be a very big deal for a given piece of property. Be sure you know what it is you are buying in this regard before spending any money.

[jody_wy]

water right search from a good company are worth the dollars, mineral rights search that is garateed is another story oh you can get the mineral search done...
Water right seach on my ranch matched up with all the abstracts and papers we all ready have, but was a nice back up to them.
had a buyer that couldn't get a mineral rights shearch done on thier time frame, Showed them everything from the old abstracts but that was'nt good enough for them well, that was thier stall tactic

[Hawknest]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Yes ... and No.

Water use rights in Wyoming are assigned to specific land, and run with the property. So they are transferable to the new owner of the land.

Springs are senior to everyone else. Over 25 gpm - it's surface water, below 25 gpm - it's groundwater

http://www.blm.gov/nstc/WaterLaws/wyoming.html (broken link)

When in doubt -http://seo.state.wy.us/