Water Rights in Wyoming (Cheyenne, Sheridan: lawyer, landscaping, buy)
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my grandparents place I worked with my step-grandad-my blood grandpa died when my dad was young of pneumonia. Earl Dunham 3/4 box X was his ranch brand. he was a real cowboy who was on real drives and rode rough string/ he also broke horses on the side... trick roper too...I did not like his method of horse breaking cause he was mean...when horses are not dealt with as babies...your dealing with a lot of dangerous animal there .some will cattle kick you bite you etc...none the less his reasons were probably justified in his time.
I tromped wool and would help him fix fence and stuff that needed done around the ranch. he would round up cattle in his truck with a sheep dog named blue--it was either a border collie or blue healer..don't remember but the dog was awesome in action..those cattle wanted no part of that dog..he would be on there heels or tail
there purchase of mineral rights paid off in oil...the oil men came in saying there is oil out here...they drilled all around...they were right it was all on his land. my dad and siblings used to ride there horses to school about 3 miles. it was 26 miles north of Douglas..about 7 miles of that was dirt---cant remember exactly.
heck they never had a real bathroom until the 60's and a phone until the 70's
the other ranch was 20,000 in Gillette and 10,000 in Sheridan and the mineral rights paid big too
never knew them much as I was out in calif mostly. it was a cattle ranch so I am thinking whatever he was doing he was doing it right
Hi everyone have a question for you Property Owner Residents,I will be back in Wyoming in about 1 1/2 weeks and am going to look at some property that has an active spring on it.
When I asked the realtor about the spring I was told that I would have to get in touch with the person that had rights to the spring and try and have water rights to spring transfered to me.
I am concerned that I might be looking at a piece of property that has a spring on it and I would not be able to utilize the water unless those rights were conveyed to me at closing. I got a response from the realtor that the property owner doesn't have rights to the spring, but the owner of the rights to the spring has no access to the spring that is on the property without trespassing, So the spring is of no use to them. Yea I know confusing.
So lets say I buy said property with no rights to spring which I don't think will happen another question comes up. What is required to drill a well and if I do drill a well do I need someones permission to use the water that the well would produce?
Thanks in advance for any responses
This thread has been an excellent education regarding issues related to buying property in Wyoming. It occured to me that the OP's questions suggested things that I have not seen addressed so far in this thread.
What are the water rights in regard to drilling a well? Can a property owner drill a well and use the water without worrying about other water rights?
What are the water rights regarding rainfall? Can you put in a collection system on your land and collect rainfall and snow melt in a tank or cistern and use it as you please? I understand it does not rain much in Wyoming, but this is one possible means of providing a small amount of water.
This thread has been an excellent education regarding issues related to buying property in Wyoming. It occured to me that the OP's questions suggested things that I have not seen addressed so far in this thread.
What are the water rights in regard to drilling a well? Can a property owner drill a well and use the water without worrying about other water rights?
Let's go back to the main concept of water ownership in Wyoming: The State of Wyoming OWNS all the water in the state, be it groundwater or surface water.
So you must apply to the State Engineer's Office for a permit to drill a well, or to use surface water.
Typically, a "domestic use only" well permit is routinely granted for a well not to exceed 25 gpm pumping (and in many parts of the state, few do) capacity. The use is exclusively "domestic use", that means a residence and normal activity around the house ... up to 1 acre of irrigated lands, such as a lawn, trees, livestock watering, car washing, etc. For residential use only, not commercial purposes.
A domestic well permit may be issued in an area served by a water district. So if you are in a municipality served by water system, you won't necessarily be able to get a domestic use permit. Or in a subdivision with a service system. Or in a controlled area, such as the basin around Cheyenne where you must hook up to the municipal water system and sewer service.
In any event, you are required to use the water from a domestic well within the scope of the permit for your property only and cannot sell, assign, gift, or in any way transfer it to another property.
What are the water rights regarding rainfall? Can you put in a collection system on your land and collect rainfall and snow melt in a tank or cistern and use it as you please? I understand it does not rain much in Wyoming, but this is one possible means of providing a small amount of water.
Once that water reaches the ground and collects, it's now "surface water" and owned by the state. It's a fine point, but you could install a collection system for your roof run-off and divert that to a cistern before it reaches the ground. But you cannot collect water that's on the ground (now "surface" water) or flowing into a stream on your property, or soaking into the ground where it can be collected by a well or emerges somewhere else as a seep ("groundwater", some of it seeing daylight again).
In much of the state, you'd only collect a "small amount" of water from your roofs since this is a rather arid (12" or less annual moisture, which includes snowfall water) country. You need to consider the quality of that water when it comes to contaminants ... I know that a lot of birds hang out on our roofs, as well as fly overhead and leave evidence of their passing. Additionally, there's a lot of airborne dust and dirt that collects on the shingles, so you wouldn't want to be drinking that, either.
Once that water reaches the ground and collects, it's now "surface water" and owned by the state. It's a fine point, but you could install a collection system for your roof run-off and divert that to a cistern before it reaches the ground. But you cannot collect water that's on the ground (now "surface" water) or flowing into a stream on your property, or soaking into the ground where it can be collected by a well or emerges somewhere else as a seep ("groundwater", some of it seeing daylight again).
In much of the state, you'd only collect a "small amount" of water from your roofs since this is a rather arid (12" or less annual moisture, which includes snowfall water) country. You need to consider the quality of that water when it comes to contaminants ... I know that a lot of birds hang out on our roofs, as well as fly overhead and leave evidence of their passing. Additionally, there's a lot of airborne dust and dirt that collects on the shingles, so you wouldn't want to be drinking that, either.
Excellent answers. I agree, would not want to be drinking any of it without filtration, treatment... Yet, most of our ancestors did. So if you are not down wind of an industrial plant of some sort....
There are very few places in Wyoming I'd worry much about this later issue.
Excellent answers. I agree, would not want to be drinking any of it without filtration, treatment... Yet, most of our ancestors did. So if you are not down wind of an industrial plant of some sort....
There are very few places in Wyoming I'd worry much about this later issue.
Where I live, the city water is taken out of the Tongue River and filtered. Upstream is littered with ranches and farms. You'd think that the city has a pretty good system until you think of all the cattle standing in the river. The water run off from their feeding area. The water run off from fields that are fertilized, sprayed for weeds, sprayed for grasshoppers and such.
For 2 years straight, the water failed it's testing. Some people drink it. I won't.
Our ancestors didn't have to worry about pesticides, fertilizers, feed lots, tractor/equipment contaminates, 300 outhouses in the next 5 miles, etc...
Excellent answers. I agree, would not want to be drinking any of it without filtration, treatment... Yet, most of our ancestors did. So if you are not down wind of an industrial plant of some sort....
There are very few places in Wyoming I'd worry much about this later issue.
Not only were there fewer sources of contamination to the water sources for those ancestors, they also weren't aware of the biological or mineral hazards presented by the contaminants that they did drink.
A lot of folk got ill from that and didn't have the knowledge to connect the dots back to the water they had been drinking.
Even in my lifetime, I used to drink untreated water from mountain streams all the time when I was backpacking and camping in remote areas. Then giardia became an issue for most streams ... I never got sick, but I knew folk who did and learned from their experience. I learned to either carry in my own water or to take measures to assure it was safe to drink.
Well what I would like to know is how in the heck do they know your water usage when you own water rights from a year round stream running on your property? How would you make sure you don't over use? I would like a well on my property for horses and possible irrigation..but from what I have read by sunsprit that cant happen? 1 acre is all...is owning mineral rights differ than water?
I don't own the mineral rights but for me to invest in a water well and be so limited on my usage I don't know if its a worth while investment? I have equivalent to city water piped to my lot
NWRW but that stipulates some/lots of usage
My grandpa's ranch had 3 Aermotor windmills for water pumping for livestock
Last edited by Claim Jumper; 10-11-2011 at 12:04 AM..
For 2 years straight, the water failed it's testing. Some people drink it. I won't.>Elkhunter
So Elkhunter what are you drinking? Here in Los Angeles they add floride to drinking water..i buy good bottled water...they think i am crazy wasting my money...but that city water is trash here.
I wont drink it
Well what I would like to know is how in the heck do they know your water usage when you own water rights from a year round stream running on your property? How would you make sure you don't over use? I would like a well on my property for horses and possible irrigation..but from what I have read by sunsprit that cant happen? 1 acre is all...is owning mineral rights differ than water?
I don't own the mineral rights but for me to invest in a water well and be so limited on my usage I don't know if its a worth while investment? I have equivalent to city water piped to my lot
NWRW but that stipulates some/lots of usage
My grandpa's ranch had 3 Aermotor windmills for water pumping for livestock
ClaimJumper, you've got to break this down into the various water uses:
1) A domestic well is restricted to that use. The maximum amount of water that can be pumped is 25 gpm. The way the State Engineer controls that is to require that the well driller/installer use a pump that cannot pump more than that. For most domestic use, 25 gpm is a huge amount of water; many folk get along with a small fraction of that, even if they water a landscaped area and have some livestock that they supply water to in stock tanks. Keep in mind the amount of power it takes to run such a well ... a typical 1 or 1.5 HP well will require a 220V hook-up even when pumping water from a couple hundred feet well depth. How can they tell how big a pump you've got down there without having it pulled out? Very easy ... they have the pump power demand charts for all of the pumps and all they have to do is measure the amperage draw by the pump motor when it's running. Viola ... so many amps draw at the 220V yields HP rating. They can also tell how much you're pumping with a simple output test; run the well and fill up a sizable container in so many seconds yields the pump gallons per minute.
Do they question your installation after the fact? not generally, because no well driller/installer is going to risk his license (and business) for you. It's not easy to pull all the piping and pump out after it's installed unless you can rig up the right equipment to do it ... especially if your well is a few hundred feet down. It's not like it's a shallow well in a riparian area that could be down 20 or 30 feet.
But to use more than 25 gpm of a domestic well to start irrigating land for a crop will kinda' stand out in this region of not very much water. Folk will notice ... and you never know just which neighbor might be the one to mention it to the local ditch rider.
2) Livestock watering wells are an entirely different well permit. You can apply for this and see if they'll approve it and to what amount of gpm flow. But on one acre of land, just how many head of livestock can you accomodate? Wouldn't it be more economically viable to water a few horses and a cow from your domestic well if you drill one or from your current water supplier?
3) Your water right from the stream (surface water) is most likely specified as to flow, not to total quantity of water. So you can draw that cfs rate, whatever it is ... as long as there is functional water to supply it and you put the water to the beneficial use for which the permit specifies. If it's a domestic use, you can draw it for that. If it's for irrigation use, you can use it for that on the land for which it is specified. If it's for livestock use, than you can use it to supply stock tanks. The state isn't going to measure your total water consumption, they measure the rate of your use. That water has to go somewhere ... so they can look at how you are using it and how you are delivering it from the point of diversion to the point of use. It's pretty simple to measure those things and determine the rate of the water you are using. If there isn't a clear determination feasible, the state engineer could require you to install a measuring flume ... essentially a trough which has a fixed area of cross section and a depth gauge. The reading on the depth gauge and knowing the size of the flume will yield a cfs reading on the charts.
Of course, if there are senior water right holders to your surface water right who place a "call" upon the water source, you may have to discontinue diverting surface water to your use until the senior water right holders are satisfied and lift their "call". The ditch rider will let you know if a senior "call" is placed upon your water use.
4) Irrigation water use is an issue unto itself. You can water up to 1 acre from a domestic well or use your NWRW water for this purpose if they allow it. But to have an irrigation well is a specific use that must be permitted as to location, function, and seniority of the well. From my perspective, it's highly unlikely that the state engineer will issue you an irrigation well permit for a one acre property that has a supplied water system. But you can apply for that irrigation well permit and see what their response is. You are correct that it's unlikely that the cost of the irrigation well would be justified for only a one acre site. You can only use the irrigation well for irrigation and cannot use the livestock watering well for irrigation. Two entirely differentt beneficial uses of water, closely regulated.
5) Mineral rights have nothing to do with Water Rights. You can own both, none, or one of them. Even with mineral rights, your trust deed will reveal what mineral rights you own ... could be coal, oil, gas, or other minerals specified ... or be an unspecified mineral right owning any and all minerals that can be found on your property.
6) If your grandpa's three Aeromotor livestock wells were drilled in days after Territorial years or since statehood, then each and every one of them had a filed well application with the courts (Territorial water rights) or from the State Engineer's office specifying the location of the well and the max gpm it could pump. So your grandpa's ranch would have had three well permits issued to it for this purpose; you can find the filings in the old documents at the state engineer's office. They have them all the way back to the Territorial days.
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