Thinking about buying a business in Lander. Is that a good idea? (Cheyenne: extended stay, for sale)

[pintails]

My hubby and I are thinking about buying a business in Lander but neither of us have ever been there. I guess I mainly want to know if it is a growing town, or if it is struggling and dying like a lot of small towns in rural America. I have looked at all the census data, and I know the actual population seems to be growing steadily, I was just curious what the folks that actually lived there thought.
We are from Portland Or, so I'm sure the weather is the same right? Haha, just kidding. I know we will have to learn to love the snow and not the rain.

[Brian_M]

Lander is a very steady and stable community now. The last major decline was in the late 70's/early 80's with the close of the US Steel plant up near Atlantic City. Most of the people in Lander earn their living from various government jobs (lots of federal, state and local positions there), and the Artists in town are making a living selling to the Gov. people. Add in a major, stable, employer like NOLS and you should feel confident about the stability of the town. Lander is in no danger of going anywhere anytime soon. It's actually a pretty well regarded and desirable location for retirees who don't want to (or can't) pay the prices of Jackson.

I've been gone a few years, what business is up for sale (if you don't mind offering that info)?

[StealthRabbit]

Whatever you do, get a true (and unbiased) valuation of the business. Validate sales, competition and regional marketplace. WY SBDC can get you some very detailed reports specific to your county / local sales / market.
Wyoming Entrepeneur - Small Business Development Center

btw; I am in Portland area (WA side by vista house / multnomah falls) 28 yrs now. I really miss WY... (at least I get the WIND in my WA locale ) mostly I miss the WY people / culture / challenging climate. PNW has been significant culture shock for me (people are private / independent, WY people very independent too, but WY people tend to help each other out (not Grumps... YMMV), heading to WY will be a change for you. Look up Kristinwy??? on this forum. She moved from Mt Angel to Sheridan a few yrs ago. Personally I would much prefer Sheridan over Lander, but I am partial to being close or within beautiful mtns. Lander is a bit too remote for me, as I also like to be close (1hr) to an international airport for quick getaways / medivacations.

Good luck, be smart, don't bet the 'retirement' on a business. (see that everyday, very sad) Make an informed decision and buckle down to make it work. Just be sure it CAN work. (There are lots of ways to evaluate a business, very dependent on type of business, especially critical if present owner adds some type of irreplaceable value (often the case in Food / medical / service businesses).

[sunsprit]

Aside from all the issues of determining present value of the business and the potential for expansion under your ownership, a qualified accountant to review the books, etc. ...

I can't stress too highly the necessity for you to come visit Lander for an extended stay to check out the area, the housing market, the recreation, and the area amenities which may be of importance to you. This is a nice time of the year to do it, too.

Personally, I like the Lander area as a place to live. But your personal evaluation is essential to reaching that decision for yourselves as your personal needs, wants, and priorities are going to be different than mine.

FWIW, I used the SBDC service through the UWyoming a year ago to evaluate the marketplace for a two prospective new businesses I was considering to be based here in Cheyenne, and it was a total waste of my time. Their information was so general in nature to my concerns about the marketplace that it was worthless. You could have sat in the comfort of your living room in OR and made similar general evaluations with what little knowledge you have in hand right now, or hired a junior high school student to give you a "report" and done as well as I did with their "service".

Good advice above, too ... re coming out here with adequate capitalization for your business and personal needs. You don't mention if this is a first-time business venture for you or if you have small business experience, or more particularly, experience in the business you are looking at buying. One consideration I'd pay close attention to in Lander: do you need a labor pool to operate? For some business types, this has been a highly problematic labor market. Note, too, that while Lander has a sizable gov't employee stable income earning population, a fair number of businesses there are seasonal tourist economy oriented outfits.

[pintails]

Thanks guys. Brian, I can't talk about the business (non-disclosure agreement) but it is service based. It's pretty new, so if you have been gone for a while it might not have been around. I'm a little worried that it is so new, but the numbers seem good. I currently own the same type of business in Portland, so that isn't a worry.
Rabbit, I don't think I would mind being remote. My idea of a perfect vacation is grabbing the horses and heading up the mountains on an elk hunt. As far as visiting is concerned, is that easy this time of year with the snow? We would like to drive over there if that was possible.

One more question....How do the locals take to out-of-towners moving to their town and buying a business? Here in OR a lot of the natives are very rude to the Californians moving up here and doing the same.

[branDcalf]

In general, Wyomingites only tend to get rude with people who move here and complain about how bad it was where they came from, followed by what we need to do different.

[WyoNewk]

Originally Posted by pintails

... As far as visiting is concerned, is that easy this time of year with the snow? We would like to drive over there if that was possible...

WDOT keeps most of Wyoming's roads in pretty good driving condition throughout the year. The main problem is that I-80 and I-90 are so far apart in that stretch from Wyoming to the coast, and there's a lot of mountain driving if you go between them.

I've driven from Medford to Wyoming in the winter a few times and dropped down to take I-80 across. From Portand I'd take I-84 to pickup I-80 at Salt Lake City, then exit the I-80 at Rawlins and come north to Muddy Gap, then back west to Lander.

Yes, you can encounter winter storms when the roads will close, but generally it's not too bad. It's more often high winds that will close I-80 or the roads from Rawlins to Lander, combined with a little snow, so it's not strictly a matter of getting in a window with no storms and following across, although that will certainly help.

If you'd rather take I-90 across, just exit at Laurel, a few miles west of Billings, and take Hwy 212 south, working your way through Thermopolis, etc. It's usually a good winter road.

Pack winter survival gear in your car, keep an eye on the weather, and if there's any doubt, call 511 for the most current road conditions. If it doesn't sound good ahead, get a hotel room and enjoy a rest.

Good luck!

[StealthRabbit]

No problem driving there (If you watch the weather and avoid getting into trouble with it). Had a friend fly to PDX and drive to CO (via WY) just yesterday (weather looks COLD, but good for driving).

I would go a different way each direction, as you may find some other spots to better suit your fancy. (like Cody, Powell, or in the Star Valley (Afton). I would avoid to I-80 portion from SLC to Rawlins (though it is most direct from the south) I would consider it a low probability of choosing a place to live along that route (tho it would give you a good representation of a lot of more 'barren' WY.) I like to frequent Lava Hot Springs, ID (SE of Pocetello) enroute PDX to WY. then bounce (slide) over to Afton to get a glimpse of a pretty nice area of WY, then north through Jackson / Moran and east to Lander. More mtns, but oh so nice. Roads are clear more often than not. Just watch the weather.

A NEW business brings additional challenge and merit to valuation. BE VERY CAREFUL of high pressure sales of a new and supposedly break-through business opportunity. I cannot count the number I've seen be a case of Smoke and Mirrors ("You must buy this TODAY or I will sell to someone else, the door is being beaten down by BIG $$ Buyers, and NO YOU do not have the time to do your due diligence.") This is SOP of sellers of businesses, and they nab lots of takers.
Your SBDC reports should be coming from ASBDC in San Antonio (via WYSBDC). I have not found anything to match the detail available through these reports (They take about 4-6 wks to generate, and FULL of very specific detail based on what you order.) Depending on the subscriptions of a particular SBDC, you can also get detailed reports of complete financials (all reports) from any NAICS code categorized by gross sales & net profits, by Zip code. You can order based on a similar demographic so for instance if seeking fruit related industries, I will compare Yakima with Hood River / The Dallas, or for ranching businesses in PNW. I will often compare Wenatchee / Ellensburg WA with Bend / Redmond similar population / business sizes. You can do the same with WY and compare with similar areas within or adjacent. (some services you would want to compare with areas of MT, SD or ND, others, maybe ID or UT.)

The correct service business CAN be good, BUT,, a few I've witnessed recently get gutted by online shopping is ophthalmology and audiology. (Especially in rural areas) Previously profitable businesses are wondering where all their customers have gone. Uninformed purchasers of businesses vulnerable to online and other unpredicted and significant competition are hit blindside. There is a large shift occurring in the retail / commercial business world. Opportunities to make out, and opportunities to get torpedoed. Lander seems to have a pretty decent market for eldercare opportunities, BUT, be careful as I have had many friends get jobs or buy businesses in smaller but isolated communities, and then become TRAPPED. (can't sell, can't move, can't make it work, made a few enemies, then (supposedly) the entire community abandoned them..., actually this CAN happen very easily if you cross the wrong person).

Be sure to sit down with a local person (familiar with marketplace / industry) and do a SWOT and a PEST analysis (these are handy, but will NOT take the place of accurate financials.) Go to a bank with the numbers, they will certainly help tear it apart.!!

[pintails]

That is one of the things that scares me most about buying a business in a small town. If one or two of the "local gossiping Betty's" decide that they don't like you for some reason, it could drag your whole business down, even if you are loved by all the other people in town!!
I don't think we have to worry about our business going overseas or anything (think wet noses and wagging tails)
I just know that I absolutely love what I do, and I hope that as long as I respect the new place that we are moving to, and respect the people who live there, we will get that back in return. I am SO excited about the thought of living in WY.
I did stay in Cody once for a few months several years back (rodeo) and I absolutely loved it. It has been a dream of mine to live there ever since then.

[pintails]

I forgot to mention that part of our loan is through the SBA, so I know all about the banks tearing you apart!!!!