Is there still a lot of open space in Wyoming? (Gillette: leasing, squatters)

[Mexi-in-Arlington-Heights]

I was just wondering is there a lot of open space in wyoming or is it becoming like the rest of the us?

[shadowwalker]

Supposedly 50% of the state is public land of some kind or other. But you still have to be sure your not on unfenced/unposted land there. And then you got your butthead landowners that like to keep EVERYONE off all land they consider theirs. I have had several run ins with owners. Some ended with the sherrif and BLM getting involved. In a year or two they were pulling their same crap again, on others.
I can see their side of it with animals and equipment and their property involved. But some are just "rentors" on public land. And won't admit it.

[sunsprit]

Over 50% of Wyoming is publicly owned land. That doesn't mean that there's unrestricted public access to all of it. Some of it is leased out for private use, and yes ... the leaseholder may control the use and access to that land, just like any other private citizen leasing property from a landlord.

Worse than "butthead landowners that like to keep EVERYONE off all land they consider theirs" are the butthead trespassers who can't be bothered to know the hunting and fishing or tresspassing laws in the state and consider any property that doesn't physically bar them from access as theirs to use as their own private recreation center.

I, and many of my neighbors, have paid dearly for the private ownership of our land. We have some fencing, and some "posted" signs along the way. But it's not uncommon to find folks from out of the area, as well as some nearby locals, using our places like it was their own. I've come across people camping out along my prime sub-irrigated meadows, clearing campsites and making fire rings ... of course, they're in there with their 4x4's, ATV's, motorcycles, and whatever else they feel free to bring along to tear up my prime pastureland and terrorize my livestock. Leaving ranch gates open seems to be their trademark, with absolutely no respect for someone else's livestock or livelihood. And yes, I've had to get the sheriff out there to get them out of the place after they've refused to leave when politely advised they were on private land and asked to leave.

So, my caution to those of you who would seek to use lands that aren't yours: get local maps and KNOW IN ADVANCE where you plan to camp, hunt, fish, or travel. Use a GPS to accurately know if you're on public land. Seek and OBTAIN permission to use other's folks property. Most of us are pleased to allow you access and use that is consistent with our use of the land; ie, I'm not going to let you hunt antelope in the pastures where I've got livestock pastured right now. But I can allow you to hunt on the other parcels if you'll keep the gates closed and leave the place as you found it. Don't count on tearing up the countryside with your dirt racing motorcycles ... and I do check on what you're planning on using for means of transport before I decide to allow you on my place. Don't let your dogs run loose on my place; they run my livestock and I have little choice but to stop your dogs by any means possible on my place.

Act and behave like a visitor to my place enjoying my hospitality and we can get along. Act like you own my place while I bear all the costs of ownership, maintenance, and taxes and we'll have a problem ....

[RockyMtnr]

Perhaps the question is more related to "wide-open spaces" than "is the land available".
The answer to that first question is - Yes. Wyoming will probably never change that way. Not that many folks could handle the weather or the comparative isolation.
Wyoming is still very much wide-open if you're talking about "views".
Peace

[shadowwalker]

I was talking about people with only grazing rights or checkerboard land (public mixed with private) behind a gate. ON a county or state road for access. We almost had a gunfight with a landowner in 1989. Over his closing the gate he made and locking it across a county maintained road. We had been on that road fishing in ponds on state land all summer even camped out. The man had seen us many times. Just days before deer hunting season in that area started. I took the fence gate apart. And we went through. He was out of control. Waving a gun and hollaring. He never new he stood less than four feet from a 12 gauge shotgun aimed at him. If he would have kept his gun on me (sitting in my pickup on a county maintained road) alittle too long. And acted alittle more like was willing to use it. I would have lost a pickup door and maybe broke a wrist. But.......
I showed up later with a deputy sherriff and a BLM official. We ended up "settling" with him. For no gate being there anytime. I have also showed on many occaisions. Some overzelous land owner. A BLM Map and got them to mostly stand down. I did come back with one other deputy sherrif in southern wyoming. For another landowner. She forced us off at gunpoint. We had hopped the state fence beside the highway and were bird hunting. All very legal and in our right on one square mile of public land. She made a scene and was caught on our video with her actions. She didn't care. She sure did later. My friend took her to court and won. For what is is worth. She got a verbal slap from the judge, for what it was worth.
I know land changes and the maps are only a guideline. But I will not be kept off Public land. And again. Just before I left the state, it was won in court that you could hunt on the checkerboard public land if you stayed on the public land. A man did this by using a GPS and had the time and money to fight the land owner for tresspassing.
I came from a long line of ranchers in Colorado. We also had problems with tresspassers. I do know where your coming from. But again. I said Butt head owners and squatters. Legally owning the land is your right to do with as you wish. Just because you want to own my public land and keep me off.
We got problems. I am one to take it up with the law and courts if I can. I am tired of losing a hunting day because someone has been scaring off people for years using these tactics.
If you haven't guessed. This and some outfitter tactics will fire me up faster than a speeding bullet.

[ElkHunter]

Here's another tactic that I just learned of last night. I am pissed and plan on pursueing this one.

A friend of mine that I was stationed in the Navy years ago got in touch with me yesterday. He had just found out I lived in Sheridan and he got my email address and wrote. I immediately called him back.

He lives in Washington and hunts annually in the Sheridan area. he uses an outfitter that he got out of a magazine. I won't disclose, YET, who this outfitter is.

But my friend has been coming every year for the last 8 or so years. he's gotten his Deer and Antelope with this outfitter. A couple years ago, my friend asked about getting an elk. The outfitter told him that there is no place in the Sheridan area to hunt Elk. All of the land is sowed up by private land or is already contracted for trophy elk.

I said, "WHAT??????"

Long story short. this Outfitter has been bringing in out of staters and taking them to BLM or State land, but telling them that he has purchased the exclusive rights for this property and nobody else can hunt it.

So, Outfitters in Sheridan. Be real careful this year or maybe next. One of you is going to have a new customer to take out hunting.

[MRVphotog]

I would say there is alot of open space in Wyoming. It's easy to drive 100 miles with barely a gas station with a store and the few unseen ranches set back on the dirt roads off most of the state highways.

Hwy 59 from Gillette to Doulglas is one of my favorites. Although I hear Wright is a major town now so the desolation is abit shorter to Douglas. Assume the store in Bill is still open.

[shadowwalker]

I'll just stop with this one experience. On my 17th birthday I was hunting on the north side of the Gros Venture river. On national forest. It was my first time hunting totally by myself. Camp, hunt, trip, ect. And the first time in this forest. I was on the side of a mountain. Trying to hunt. I was approached by a man on horseback. He was nice enough and after a few minutes of conversation He told me he had the lease for the whole valley and I was tresspassing. He told me in a nice way I should leave. I went back packed up camp and left. I got back to Rocksprings and found out that he was lying.
I was raised to respect the elders and what they said went.
My whole trip as a bust. Because one outfitter saw a chance to run off a hunter. I found out he was a outfitter by having a older friend of mine check him out. He was from Jackson and new the wardens and forest rangers.
I have had other run in's with outfitters. I have got just as dirty as the outfitters when tricks were played. If needed. But I won't talk too much on it.
The ranchers and outfitters have had the Wyoming legislature in their pockets forever it seems. Only the vigilance of a few people in making the backdoor deals of both parties. Available to public scrutiney. Have held the coyotes at bay!!!

[mark6052]

Ive had similar experiences in both MT and ID. guides working on federal land claiming they have exclusive rights. anything to make a buck. I also think hunters should know if they are on real private land. and respect the owners. somedays I wish they would control the hunters like they do in europe. or atleast require more ongoing education and training.

[sunsprit]

shadoww ... obviously, we've touched on a sensitive area of public lands use. I've been in a similar situation where an adjacent landowner tried to force me off public land by claiming exclusive access or use rights to it. Years ago, all I had was my map & skills to prove where I was at, and a camera to document the scene to the sheriff if it came to that.

Today, I have a GPS and my maps. I've had several encounters with outfitters as you describe ... almost at gunpoint, telling me to leave "their" land. Not 'gonna happen when I show them where we're at on the GPS.

I've also seen county roads blocked off and gated by landowners ... generally with some cause re historical rights and improperly secured easements by the public authorities. Several times, the landowner was correct ... the county didn't have an easement, and he had the right to secure his property. Of course, they didn't complain when the county was clearing their road at public expense ....

I've seen more and more public land in the West become landlocked by private lands. Unless the public authorities seek and obtain some leased or easement granted public access, these public lands will be denied to the public unless they pay a fee or guide to gain access.