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I don't like coffee. The drug caffeine doesn't really do anything for me. But now I know from the OP (and the subsequent article) that even with police officers present ,"accidentally" discharging a firearm in a public and privately owned space, means I won't get arrested...
Shouldn't I come to Wyoming if I wanted to practice or dispense justice Dirty Harry/Death Wish style?
Or maybe the girl get was let off because of her name (nepotism.. and things of the sort)... Or was it money (capitalism)?
Or does shooting a gun wherever and not killing someone make it legal or, "alright"?
I don't like coffee. The drug caffeine doesn't really do anything for me. But now I know from the OP (and the subsequent article) that even with police officers present ,"accidentally" discharging a firearm in a public and privately owned space, means I won't get arrested...
Shouldn't I come to Wyoming if I wanted to practice or dispense justice Dirty Harry/Death Wish style?
Or maybe the girl get was let off because of her name (nepotism.. and things of the sort)... Or was it money (capitalism)?
Or does shooting a gun wherever and not killing someone make it legal or, "alright"?
went to the State 4-H shoot (over 500 shooters)for 8-18 years with my kids,(black powder, shotgun(trap) , .22 rifle , pistol, air rifle , air pistol, archery. One year a kid got killed , on the way back from the trap range a car ran a stop sign t boning the care he was in , sure made for a somber awards program the last day.
They First all lean Safty before they even touch a pistol , rifle or bow . Sounds like the Girl and her Family all skipped that part, and part of knowing the weapon you have is practice and using it.Yes there were laws broken at that time, I didn't see how the case ended up?
I don't like coffee. The drug caffeine doesn't really do anything for me. But now I know from the OP (and the subsequent article) that even with police officers present ,"accidentally" discharging a firearm in a public and privately owned space, means I won't get arrested...
Shouldn't I come to Wyoming if I wanted to practice or dispense justice Dirty Harry/Death Wish style?
Or maybe the girl get was let off because of her name (nepotism.. and things of the sort)... Or was it money (capitalism)?
Or does shooting a gun wherever and not killing someone make it legal or, "alright"?
The fallacy of your thinking is equating a stupid mistake and planning/"dispensing" a felony attack upon others with a firearm.
They are entirely different acts, but you can't get past the fact that people in Wyoming will carry and not use them to attack others, while in Chicago ... folk carry illegally and apparently can't keep their fingers off the trigger. The murder rate in Chicago was 500 murders in 2012, right?
The act of carrying illegally here for that 17 year old here had consequences. What stands out, however, is that she didn't intentionally pull the trigger against another person, and we're all fortunate that the damage was minimal. From what I read in the press, that's unusual compared to Chicago gun violence, where teenagers routinely use firearms upon others.
Exercising one's right to possess and carry does not confer a right to dispense "dirty harry" or any other "justice". It's a responsibility that is taken seriously, and the proof of it is that Wyoming doesn't have the shoot-outs that you think it should just because the firearms are readily available.
In answer to your question about "shouldn't I come to Wyoming...." No. You should stay put in Chicago.
...
They First all lean Safty before they even touch a pistol , rifle or bow . Sounds like the Girl and her Family all skipped that part, and part of knowing the weapon you have is practice and using it.Yes there were laws broken at that time, I didn't see how the case ended up?
Learning safety is key, and how to store a weapon properly should come with that safety training.
And you admit that laws were broken, and from what I can tell from the article and posts on this thread, a fine was issued.
The fallacy of your thinking is equating a stupid mistake and planning/"dispensing" a felony attack upon others with a firearm.
You might not plan to shoot someone "mistakenly" with a gun, but if you do, are you not responsible for it? Does the law not allow for degrees of infraction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
They are entirely different acts, but you can't get past the fact that people in Wyoming will carry and not use them to attack others, while in Chicago ... folk carry illegally and apparently can't keep their fingers off the trigger. The murder rate in Chicago was 500 murders in 2012, right?
You are right. But let me ask you this, if people in Wyoming carry weapons to not attack others, why carry at all? Animals, sure. But at a coffee shop? Do many bears find their way into coffee shops there? I would think a shotgun would be a better defense against wild animals.
My friend worked for the DNR in Alaska for a while and had to deal with moose and bears crossing the roads all the time. Is that a thing in Wyoming too?
Chicago murders reached over 500 for 2012. But unlike Wyoming, apparently, people that carry weapons in Chicago, legally or illegally, intend to use them on people. If people carry weapons to, in your words "use them to attack others", they wouldn't carry in Chicago either. I don't carry a gun. Or a knife. I have no intention of using either on a human being, much like someone in Wyoming, apparently.
The people who carry guns here have intentions to use them against other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
The act of carrying illegally here for that 17 year old here had consequences. What stands out, however, is that she didn't intentionally pull the trigger against another person, and we're all fortunate that the damage was minimal. From what I read in the press, that's unusual compared to Chicago gun violence, where teenagers routinely use firearms upon others.
The consequence was a fine, correct? Or was it something else?
Generally speaking, in Chicago or other places in the country, discharging a weapon, whether intentional or not, in a public space results in more than a fine.
And those teenagers that use guns? They're in gangs. They have a gun because they intend to use it, or plan on using it, or foresee themselves using it against someone else with a gun/knife/bat/etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
Exercising one's right to possess and carry does not confer a right to dispense "dirty harry" or any other "justice". It's a responsibility that is taken seriously, and the proof of it is that Wyoming doesn't have the shoot-outs that you think it should just because the firearms are readily available.
I didn't say Wyoming had shootouts, you inferred it. I said, if I came into a public/private space and fired shots without the intention of hurting someone, would that be illegal? I wasn't aiming for anyone, I wasn't looking to kill/injury someone, would that be legal?
If I pulled out my *legally owned and licensed gun* to show a friend my new piece in a public space, and it "accidentally" went off... *almost* shot someone, but didn't... that would be legal? That's what I was getting at.
What if I accidentally dropped my gun while showing it to someone in a public space and it went off (like in the OP) and killed someone?
Does the state of Wyoming consider that an "Oopsie!", and let it slide... wait, I know the answer to that... a former political figure in America shot another man in the face, and didn't face charges because it was an "Oopsie!", or something of the sort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
In answer to your question about "shouldn't I come to Wyoming...." No. You should stay put in Chicago.
That's a fair answer. Should you come to Chicago? I don't know, if you have an itchy trigger finger you shouldn't... but wait... you said earlier that people of Wyoming don't carry to harm others, so in that case, feel free to visit!
A2DAC, I believe you are getting the wrong impression, or you have preconceived notions as to Wyoming, or most eveyplace else. We carry weapons to defend and protect ourselves. That fact that most of us do carry, is why Wyoming is such a polite society.
Yes, you were correct that we carry a weapon to use on another person, but not unprovoked. To defend life and property from others that would want to take that away. Your statement that we carry only to "attack" others is false and is a sure sign that you don't appreciate our 2nd ammendment rights. Maybe it is a total misunderstanding of rights, period. I don't know which.
Carrying a weapon while traveling is exactly the prime time to carry because you are in elements that you are unfamiliar with and harm can come from any direction and your gun is the "last" line of defense.
The girl carrying a weapon in the coffee shop was appropriate in that you don't get robbed, raped, beat upon, while driving your car, so why leave your only line of defense, in the car? You take it with you when you get out of car.
When Sunsprit mentioned that you carry responsibly, you countered with:
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I didn't say Wyoming had shootouts, you inferred it. I said, if I came into a public/private space and fired shots without the intention of hurting someone, would that be illegal? I wasn't aiming for anyone, I wasn't looking to kill/injury someone, would that be legal?
If I pulled out my *legally owned and licensed gun* to show a friend my new piece in a public space, and it "accidentally" went off... *almost* shot someone, but didn't... that would be legal? That's what I was getting at.
This tells me that you have never been taught proper gun safety or you would know that it is totally irresponsible to "take your gun out to show somebody". The only reason my gun comes out of the holster is to clean it, or go bang. You would never pull the gun out of concealment to "show" anybody. Not even a criminal.
And to your question of if it would be illegal if it accidentally went off...... Did you read the link? Of course it is, she's getting a ticket. The point of the article is to show that the Wyoming Law Enforcement, and our laws are responsible enough to know that nobody was hurt, so she was simply ticketed. Just like if you were speeding, if it was speeding alone, you would get a ticket. If your speeding caused injury, your going to jail. Also, the gun was not confiscated, it was given to the parents. Again, the gun didn't do anything wrong, it's a tool, it's property, so it was returned to the owner. Much the same as your car would be free, because it was YOU that was speeding, not the car.
You commented on "why have it?" You have a gun for defense of yourself, your family and loved ones, period. You learn how to handle it, you learn how to shoot it, you learn how to care for it, so it's always there and ready, in case you need it to protect life. You do not go attacking people with it. If you think it is wrong to keep it just in case, then why do you have a fire extinguisher? There are 5 times more home intrusions or major assaults than there are fires.
A2DAC, I believe you are getting the wrong impression, or you have preconceived notions as to Wyoming, or most eveyplace else. We carry weapons to defend and protect ourselves. That fact that most of us do carry, is why Wyoming is such a polite society.
In the southside of Chicago, many people carry guns... so why is it that the northside, where few to none carry weapons is more "polite" than the southside that has access to guns?
And for the record, I know Wyoming (as a whole) is rural. I don't think everyone there carries a gun on them at all times, though they might.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
Yes, you were correct that we carry a weapon to use on another person, but not unprovoked. To defend life and property from others that would want to take that away. Your statement that we carry only to "attack" others is false and is a sure sign that you don't appreciate our 2nd ammendment rights. Maybe it is a total misunderstanding of rights, period. I don't know which.
I never said people in Wyoming carried guns to "attack" others... I don't think.
The poster I was quoting said ***they (Wyoming residents)*** don't carry weapons to attack others. I then followed up with a anecdote of a friend of mine that worked in the DNR in Alaska that carried a shotgun and pistol with him at all times to combat the wildlife. If that holds true in Wyoming, then that is fine.
That is, people in Wyoming need firearms at their side to combat wilderness wherever it may strike. But the original poster said people in Wyoming don't carry weapons to use against other people. Maybe I misunderstood?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
...a weapon while traveling is exactly the prime time to carry because you are in elements that you are unfamiliar with and harm can come from any direction and your gun is the "last" line of defense.
You believe in the 10th Amendment, right?
That basically means every single state is a new "country", so to speak. Gun laws are different in Wyoming, Texas, Kentucky, Florida, Maine, Alaska, Maryland, Georgia, Michigan, Hawaii, etc.
If the gun is the "last line of defense", what is the first? And the second? And the third? Fourth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
The girl carrying a weapon in the coffee shop was appropriate in that you don't get robbed, raped, beat upon, while driving your car, so why leave your only line of defense, in the car? You take it with you when you get out of car.
Is Wyoming that DANGEROUS?
Even in Chicago my wife hasn't been raped, robbed, mugged, beaten, etc... neither have I... and that's a dangerous place, right? So why would Wyoming be more dangerous than Chicago? Or New York? Or Miami? Or Salt Lake City? Or Nashville?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
You would never pull the gun out of concealment to "show" anybody. Not even a criminal...
So, if someone tries to rob you, break into your house, rape you, you don't pull out your gun unless you are going to shoot that person? Maybe you should tell that to the cops in the coffee shop from the OP:
"Two Cheyenne Police officers were in the coffee shop at the time. Once they heard the gunshot, they drew their pistols and scanned the shop."
They should have shot that girl, right? Come on, be honest. Guns are for intimidation. Most people pull guns hoping not to use them. That's why *we* have a "polite" society right? Because we could shoot them dead if they cross our boundaries. It's why we don't attack China, or Russia, or North Korea... they have the same weapons we do, and we don't want to lose in a duel.
If your idea of a polite society is based on the fact that anyone could kill anyone at any point in time, I don't know if I would want to live there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter
..You commented on "why have it?" You have a gun for defense of yourself, your family and loved ones, period. You learn how to handle it, you learn how to shoot it, you learn how to care for it, so it's always there and ready, in case you need it to protect life. You do not go attacking people with it. If you think it is wrong to keep it just in case, then why do you have a fire extinguisher? There are 5 times more home intrusions or major assaults than there are fires.
I don't have a fire extinguisher. I have a smoke detector.
You know what I think?
I think a good defense is the best offense.
I would wear a bullet proof vest before I bought a gun and carried it with me. After all, living to fight another day is better than dying today, right?
... That fact that most of us do carry, is why Wyoming is such a polite society....
Either I'm totally unaware of those around me or the bolded portion is simply not true (which would also make the rest of it untrue). I don't carry and don't know of many who do. Granted, I'm sure some do carry concealed and I don't know it just because it's concealed, but none of my friends pack on their person. I'd bet it's a very small percentage of the population who carry regularly.
Have I? Yes, technically. I had a .357 within reach in my car. I gave that up 35 years ago and haven't missed it yet.
In the southside of Chicago, many people carry guns... so why is it that the northside, where few to none carry weapons is more "polite" than the southside that has access to guns?
And for the record, I know Wyoming (as a whole) is rural. I don't think everyone there carries a gun on them at all times, though they might.
We are talking about a girl in a restaurant in Wyoming. Not Chicago. Illinois it is illegal to own firearms and what few there are, have to be registered and licensed and yet, Illinois is the murder capital of the states. The difference between North and South Chicago is like the difference between South and North Korea. Of the shootings in Chicago, how many of them are done with a law respecting gun owner?ote]You believe in the 10th Amendment, right?
That basically means every single state is a new "country", so to speak. Gun laws are different in Wyoming, Texas, Kentucky, Florida, Maine, Alaska, Maryland, Georgia, Michigan, Hawaii, etc.
If the gun is the "last line of defense", what is the first? And the second? And the third? Fourth?[/quote]
First of all, the Constitution and Bill of Rights applies to every state, but yes, on top of that, each state has their own laws to further define what the state wants. It is apparent that your laws have been found unconstitutional. That means that it has stepped on your rights, as a citizen of the United States.
The very first line of defense is to not live in states that strip their citizens of their constitutional rights. The next would be to not place yourself in harms way. Since we can't stay home and huddle in the corner and still have quality of life, then I guess you have to get out and about. In Wyoming, we have no need to retreat, we are allowed to stand our ground.
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Is Wyoming that DANGEROUS?
Even in Chicago my wife hasn't been raped, robbed, mugged, beaten, etc... neither have I... and that's a dangerous place, right? So why would Wyoming be more dangerous than Chicago? Or New York? Or Miami? Or Salt Lake City? Or Nashville?
We can go anywhere in our state and feel safe and secure. Can you do that in Chicago?
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So, if someone tries to rob you, break into your house, rape you, you don't pull out your gun unless you are going to shoot that person? Maybe you should tell that to the cops in the coffee shop from the OP:
"Two Cheyenne Police officers were in the coffee shop at the time. Once they heard the gunshot, they drew their pistols and scanned the shop."
That is correct, because police officers are trained to do that. If I heard a gunshot, yup, my gun would come out too. You are trying to argue apples and oranges.
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They should have shot that girl, right? Come on, be honest. Guns are for intimidation. Most people pull guns hoping not to use them. That's why *we* have a "polite" society right? Because we could shoot them dead if they cross our boundaries. It's why we don't attack China, or Russia, or North Korea... they have the same weapons we do, and we don't want to lose in a duel.
That is the most rediculous statement I have heard in a long time. Why should the police shoot that gir? She didn't have a gun and wasn't posing a threat. When/if you hunt, do you shoot at noise or do you follow the rules of good gun skills and identify your target? Joe Biden doesn't, he shoots into the air, outside on the balcony, when the threat is breaking down the door. Or, he shoots through the door not knowing what is on the other side. We don't do that here.
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If your idea of a polite society is based on the fact that anyone could kill anyone at any point in time, I don't know if I would want to live there.
That's probably a good thing because most folks around here value the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and take a dim view of those that are willing to let it slip away.
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I don't have a fire extinguisher. I have a smoke detector.
Same difference.
Quote:
You know what I think?
I think a good defense is the best offense.
I would wear a bullet proof vest before I bought a gun and carried it with me. After all, living to fight another day is better than dying today, right?
You don't need a bullet proof vest in Wyoming. Being a victim is not the way to go. Once again you have missinterpreted what has been said. "living to fight another day is better than dying today, right?" That statement says it all. What are you going to do when an intruder breaks into your home, run? Are women trained to give up when they are about to be raped? I've said it before, as well as several others here. Our weapons are not to go to war, or to fight, they are defense only and if I pull my weapon, something is going to die and I really don't think it will be me. History has taught me that.
WyoNewk, when the law was passed to allow concealed carry without a permit, it was estimated that 30% of the people armed themselves the first year and that was based on new gun sales in the state. If you and I went out for supper, or we had a bar-b-q, you would never know I was concealing a weapon. The whole idea of concealing is nobody knows, so I am not surprised that friends have not told you.
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