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My husband just got a job offer to work in Casper. His company requires that we move within 300 miles, inside the state of Wyoming. Since I work as a flight attendant and need reasonable access to the Denver airport, I'd rather not live anywhere north of Casper. I've been looking at Casper, Cheyenne, and Laramie... What are the pros and cons for each? Any other city/town recommendations?
I'd also love any apartment complex recommendations! We're looking for a one or two bedroom place. I really don't think we're in the market for a house, because our jobs keep us too busy for the kind of upkeep a house requires.
We're in our mid-20's. It would be nice to live around others near our age, which is why I was considering Laramie. We have a cat. We love the outdoors, so living near hiking trails would be a huge plus. Nice kitchen countertops and appliances would definitely be appreciated. We'd prefer not to have carpets again, but this is not a priority. We're pretty flexible.
Any help or recommendations are truly appreciated!
given the parameters you've described for DIA access and requirement to live within WY borders, Laramie becomes a good choice. Access to the I-25 corridor for a commute via the canyon to Ft Collins is one of the shortest drives to DIA from WY.
You'll need to be prepared for the potential for road closures in the winter months, so staying on top of the weather/road forecasts is critical ... and plan your travel accordingly. You may find some days when it's best to arrive early or stay in Denver rather than be out on the road, but you shouldn't have any difficulty getting lodging in Denver for those times. Be aware that there will be winter days that the roads aren't closed in Northern CO and into WY, but travel may still be hazardous and if you can schedule your trip when better conditions present, it would be prudent. Even at that, there will be days when travels south of Ft Collins into the Denver metro area on I-25 can be difficult ... we used to live off of I-25 at Hwy 52, and I commuted to SW Denver. This is where I-25's north facing slopes on rolling hills consistently developed black ice conditions through the winter months (prone to this ice formation due to sunshine/warm air melting the snow and then re-freezing on the surface; snowplows do not remove the ice, but may spray chloride or toss sand/gravel on it). Accidents in that area were common, and it's where a lot of the I-25 multi-car pileups occur due to folk coming over the crest of a hill to discover that the roadway is blocked with a car already and they're unable to stop on the slick stuff before running off the road or into the other vehicles.
Rentals in Laramie present an active market due to the college town turn-over, but the demographics favor a 20-something crowd compared to much of Wyoming. Access to outdoor recreation from Laramie is excellent, too.
I wouldn't rely upon Wyoming's limited commercial aviation sector for a commute. The airline service is less than reliable, and even with the essential air service subsidy, the operations are frequently in financial distress. It's not unknown for Great Lakes to cancel a scheduled flight at the last minute if there aren't enough revenue passengers to justify the flight, either.
jody_wy: You make a very good point about the carpet and have changed my mind! We're moving from the 100+ degrees weather here in Texas. It'll definitely be an adjustment dealing with wintertime in Wyoming. It simply hadn't occurred to me that carpets would be an asset for wintertime warmth.
ElkHunter: I think that north of Casper is just too far for us. I really don't want to rely on regional jets to commute to work. I used to work at a regional airline, so I know the rate of delays and cancellations, and that just won't work for me.
sunsprit: THANK YOU SO MUCH. Your response was wonderfully detailed and I think you're right about Laramie being our best bet. You're definitely right about essential air service airports being too shaky for my commute. Quite a few EAS airports were recently shut down here in Texas. I'll only need to make the commute to DIA a few times a month, anyway. Thank you for the information about the cold weather conditions and it's effect on my commute. I'll definitely be wary going over hills.
Here are a few more questions that I've thought about, since further researching the move:
I've been noticing that a lot of rentals in Wyoming are not very pet friendly. Of the apartments that would accept our cat at all, several apartments quoted me $600 pet deposit + monthly pet rent. One apartment complex even requested that I get my cat declawed. Is that normal for the area?
Also, is anyone familiar with Campus Habitat in Laramie? I go to school online, and said they would let us rent out an entire apartment, rather than just one room. Any thoughts on the place?
Is anyone familiar with Green Ride Colorado, the shuttle from Laramie to DIA? Would that be a good option to commute to DIA during the wintertime, since I'm not yet confident about driving in icy conditions?
While I love Laramie and believe you would enjoy your time in Laramie I would not recommend living there to someone who is commuting to Casper and DIA. Cheyenne is a much safer bet and does not have the nine months of winter which Laramie has. I have lived in both places and given that I suggest Cheyenne to you.
While I love Laramie and believe you would enjoy your time in Laramie I would not recommend living there to someone who is commuting to Casper and DIA. Cheyenne is a much safer bet and does not have the nine months of winter which Laramie has. I have lived in both places and given that I suggest Cheyenne to you.
According to the weather channel's website, Cheyenne is warmer than Laramie by an average of 6°F. I'm looking at both cities temperature history, and they don't seem all that different. What am I missing?
According to the weather channel's website, Cheyenne is warmer than Laramie by an average of 6°F. I'm looking at both cities temperature history, and they don't seem all that different. What am I missing?
Laramie sits in a different valley at a higher altitude than Cheyenne, about 1,200' higher ... and surrounded on three sides by higher mountains. Cheyenne is out on the plains, East of the high ground, and with lowering terrain to the east ... resulting in warmer air temps and for more months than Laramie.
While I'll agree that Cheyenne may present fewer days with problematic commuting to DEN (sorry, I was thinking the old airport DIA) than Laramie, I believe that the difference is minimalized by your ability to know in advance what your bid lines mean for times to be in Denver. You can plan your travel and adjust your Laramie departure ... the critical issue is being on-time for your trips, and you can arrive early if need be. Avoiding "get thereitis" is a key factor to safe travels, IMO ... in winter road travels as well as aviation. Coming home, you have the luxury of choosing the best of the possible travel departure time for your return, and a prudent delay is well worth your time.
The transit services from either town appear to do a good job getting to DEN and back. IIRC, both stop in Ft Collins at the bus transfer station for a change-over to a larger bus from the vans, typically without much wait time between the transfers. Although you have access to employee parking and shuttles at DEN, you may find that the commute via public trans is better for your needs in inclement weather conditions ... and possibly less expensive per round trip. Even if it were to be more expensive, the driving safety and convenience may be the bigger positive factor for your needs.
What presents, however, as a big factor for Laramie that you mentioned ... is the 20-something social scene. Laramie is more likely to fulfill that for you than Cheyenne with Laramie's focus on the University and other higher education schools.
Wyoming rentals & pets? way too many losses for us rental property owners due to pets. Yes, I've heard every story about how wonderful fido and whiskers are, housebroken, tame, calm, non-destructive, etc. I've lost more money to pet damage than you can imagine, and most of the time the damages were non-recoverable ... even with high security deposits and extra charges for the pets. I have my own pets at home, and as good as they are and well behaved ... they still cause damage; I accept that as part of my costs of pet ownership. But those costs from tenants seem to always get passed on to me and other landlords, so from our past experiences most simply avoid the problem by not allowing pets. Sorry, but it's an economic decision.
Campus Habitat? I recall looking at a construction project there a few years ago, and it struck me as "party central" for a lot of kids away from home for the first time. But that's from my aging perspective ... and you may find the environment very acceptable, a decent value for your housing budget, and a good social place. Best to check this out for yourself and decide. In any event, housing targeted to your age group/students/young couples may be more readily available in Laramie than Cheyenne ... again, Laramie is the home of the UW. Cheyenne has a modest size community college, with a lot of on-campus housing compared to a sizable rental market targeted to a given age group.
I urge you to come visit WY and check out the possible residential areas that have your interest. Best to contact real estate agents/rental management companies in advance and let them know your requirements, price range, etc. .... and let them show you what they've got available.
Laramie sits in a different valley at a higher altitude than Cheyenne, about 1,200' higher ... and surrounded on three sides by higher mountains. Cheyenne is out on the plains, East of the high ground, and with lowering terrain to the east ... resulting in warmer air temps and for more months than Laramie.
While I'll agree that Cheyenne may present fewer days with problematic commuting to DEN (sorry, I was thinking the old airport DIA) than Laramie, I believe that the difference is minimalized by your ability to know in advance what your bid lines mean for times to be in Denver. You can plan your travel and adjust your Laramie departure ... the critical issue is being on-time for your trips, and you can arrive early if need be. Avoiding "get thereitis" is a key factor to safe travels, IMO ... in winter road travels as well as aviation. Coming home, you have the luxury of choosing the best of the possible travel departure time for your return, and a prudent delay is well worth your time.
The transit services from either town appear to do a good job getting to DEN and back. IIRC, both stop in Ft Collins at the bus transfer station for a change-over to a larger bus from the vans, typically without much wait time between the transfers. Although you have access to employee parking and shuttles at DEN, you may find that the commute via public trans is better for your needs in inclement weather conditions ... and possibly less expensive per round trip. Even if it were to be more expensive, the driving safety and convenience may be the bigger positive factor for your needs.
What presents, however, as a big factor for Laramie that you mentioned ... is the 20-something social scene. Laramie is more likely to fulfill that for you than Cheyenne with Laramie's focus on the University and other higher education schools.
Wyoming rentals & pets? way too many losses for us rental property owners due to pets. Yes, I've heard every story about how wonderful fido and whiskers are, housebroken, tame, calm, non-destructive, etc. I've lost more money to pet damage than you can imagine, and most of the time the damages were non-recoverable ... even with high security deposits and extra charges for the pets. I have my own pets at home, and as good as they are and well behaved ... they still cause damage; I accept that as part of my costs of pet ownership. But those costs from tenants seem to always get passed on to me and other landlords, so from our past experiences most simply avoid the problem by not allowing pets. Sorry, but it's an economic decision.
Campus Habitat? I recall looking at a construction project there a few years ago, and it struck me as "party central" for a lot of kids away from home for the first time. But that's from my aging perspective ... and you may find the environment very acceptable, a decent value for your housing budget, and a good social place. Best to check this out for yourself and decide. In any event, housing targeted to your age group/students/young couples may be more readily available in Laramie than Cheyenne ... again, Laramie is the home of the UW. Cheyenne has a modest size community college, with a lot of on-campus housing compared to a sizable rental market targeted to a given age group.
I urge you to come visit WY and check out the possible residential areas that have your interest. Best to contact real estate agents/rental management companies in advance and let them know your requirements, price range, etc. .... and let them show you what they've got available.
You're the best! Thank you so much for your insight.
Generally, how long do road closures last during bad weather? I usually bid for 11 off days in a row each month, so I'd be able to leave a few days early if weather was starting to look bad. And, as you said, I can come home late, too. I'm based in Houston, and I have family to stay with if things aren't looking good in Denver.
I'm glad to hear the positive feedback on the shuttle! I agree that the driving safety and convenience would outweigh the cost, when I don't feel confident driving on my own. Frankly, having that shuttle as an option makes me want to look only in Laramie and Cheyenne.
You're totally right about how much damage pets can cause, I was just surprised at how strict the rules are in Wyoming, compared to when we were last looking for an apartment in Texas. Can't blame you, though. And, I'll definitely come visit before we decide on an apartment. We're pretty quiet, but we've lived in campus neighborhoods before, so we can tolerate others partying... to an extent. I really don't want to decide on anything sight unseen.
(snip)Generally, how long do road closures last during bad weather? (snip)
It's hard to generalize the road closure durations ....
it all depends.
Typically, it's not a massive amount of snowfall that will be the causation for a closure; the plows do a reasonably good job of clearing the highway most of the time.
The bigger concern is the strong winds that obscure visibility with blowing snow and/or the icy roads.
Years ago, the authorities didn't close the roads until things were really bad. But with the higher traffic densities of recent years and the realization that first responder resources were being abused by folk who just had to get somewhere now in poor conditions, the decision to close the roads or to advise "no unnecessary travel" is given more frequently now.
Some closures may last for only a few hours. Some may last for a day. Some may last for a couple of days.
Be aware that a road closure due to whiteout conditions may happen even after a storm front has passed through. What happens is the winds blow the snow about, and the roads disappear in a matter of minutes from when they are plowed ... as well, the visibility can be just in front of your hood and you can't see where you're going. Top it off with an ice layer and slick conditions and other traffic on the road with varying skill levels and equipment, and it's very hazardous driving. At the same time, you'll find truckers with equipment and a higher seating position that can and do maintain higher speeds than you can safely handle ... a prescription for a wide disparity in road speeds and it's all the more dangerous.
FWIW, you might want to search YouTube for videos of wintertime WY driving. There's a bunch of posts where you can see what a typical winter day driving might be like for you.
There's posters on this forum that have decades of successful, accident-free driving Wyoming winter experience. For some, they are so acclimated to these conditions that it's almost a normal experience for them. For others, they can honestly relate the trips where they were slowed down to almost no progress at all, maybe even had someone walking the road alongside the car to find the road for them ... still others will say it's no big deal and they've never heard of accidents. We've had some exchanges here where a few posters assserted that they'd never heard of icy roads in Wyoming ... and yet, I can find numerous road closures or icy road advisories each winter. WYDOT website lists the roads, conditions, closures, advisories, and forecasts. Best to use all available 'net resources for weather reporting and road conditions to make informed decisions about winter time driving around the region. Don't forget to get the CO DOT reports, too. Rush hour traffic in inclement conditions in the Denver metro area can greatly complicate travel in the area, especially during an active storm.
Of course, having an appropriate vehicle with proper winter time equipment is also part of your proactive winter driving program. Personally, I use Subie AWD OBW's ... but there are many other AWD or FWD cars in the marketplace that will do an excellent job, too (my Audi Quattro's were excellent cars for this area). Many threads here on C-D about what's good to have on hand for your travels ....
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