A summary of weather/shopping/general 'feel' differences between large-medium towns please? (Gillette: Home Depot, high school)

[sunsprit]

typo there WyoNewK ... that lapse rate is per 1,000', not 10000'.

but correct re the cooler temps in the high altitude southern wyoming plains areas compared to northern wyoming lower altitudes. given the typical frontal path distributions across wyoming, it's pretty normal for it to be cooler on a summer day in cheyenne than sheridan.
Or, in the winter with cold fronts coming through, to be colder in Cheyenne than Sheridan.

speaking of typical winds aloft, I flew cheyenne to sheridan for meetings last summer and stayed about 1,500' AGL heading northward to avoid the headwinds. With an early AM departure, there was no turbulence. Coming home that early evening, I caught tailwinds that saw a 70+ mph increase in my ground speed, and I only needed to climb to 4,000' AGL.
Sure was nice to see 225+ over the ground in an old 182 .... and didn't need to climb up to oxygen altitudes. It was a smooth ride, too. Could've seen more increase to go higher, but in such a short distance it wasn't worth the climb.

[sunsprit]

OP, looking at this week's recent ads for rental housing in the Cheyenne paper ...

2bd/1ba houses on a one-year lease appear to have a starting price point around $900/month, no utilities included. I'd figure on an average coming in around $200-300 per month for the utilities, especially in the older houses with inefficient heating systems and poor insulation/sealing. You'll also pay for trash pick-up, and garages would be an extra cost item.

2bd/1ba apartments on one-year leases, the lowest I saw was $625month, including water.
You'll pay gas & electricity, which I'd estimate to be in the $150-250/month range.

Those are starting price points in the local market, and my bet is that they are not in Cheyenne's nicer neighborhoods.

When I was looking to buy rental properties in the Cheyenne area, the ones I saw that could cash flow at those price points were places in such poor condition that I wouldn't have wanted to buy one ... and didn't. There were way too many maintenance and repair issues with them that I couldn't justify the extra work it would take for me as a landlord ... and that was in the lower prices of housing in the area of 6-8 years ago when I was seeking to invest.

[WyoNewk]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

typo there WyoNewK ... that lapse rate is per 1,000', not 10000'.

Nnnnervous finger.

[a42887]

One of the only places to see a large amount of properties in Cheyenne online is:

Cheyenne Preferred Management with apartments for rent, houses for rent, and commercial properties for rent in Cheyenne, Wyoming

This may give you a bit of perspective of what you can get for your money in Cheyenne, which is one of the cheaper places in the state to live. They show their open properties at the top of the pages, but all properties they rent out are listed with current rents, so there is a ton of comparisons to be made.

I've lived in one of their properties, and I can assure you, they look better in photos than in person. At that, most of the cheap ones don't even look good in photos...

[Froggie Legs]

While on the small-ish side (pop.7500), Lander has a outdoorsy type (NOLS) crowd, cool restaurants and bars...and Riverton (pop. 10k) is only 25 miles away or so, larger with the Walmart, etc. I only mention it as it is, climate wise, one of the least windy, as well as very scenic places to live. Not sure about home school groups there, but if you can take a trip to Wyoming, check them out. They do have high speed internet, nice library and community center, and Riverton has the community college. Down side is housing is going to be hard to come by anywhere in that rent range, but there is a new apartment building in Lander (don't know the cost). Still, I loved waking up to the view of the Wind River mountains every day when I lived there. There were more sunny days than cloudy, that is for sure! The two towns have an online bulletin board where rentals are posted. landertalk and rivertontalk.

[sunsprit]

LOL here, Froggie Legs ... you couldn't have suggested a place much more out of line with the strict budget requirements of the OP.

Lander, while one of my favorite towns in Wyoming .... is a pricey area ... as you acknowledged, finding a rental in their price range will be difficult, if not impossible.

[Froggie Legs]

Well one can dream..and you never know, you can get lucky. Riverton also might have options. There are 2 and 3 bedroom mobile home for $600-650 listed in the paper.

[movingagain2012]

Originally Posted by WyoNewk

For the most part Wyoming is NOT a cheap place to live. There are lots of small towns in states all over the midwest where older homes will rent (or sell) really cheap compared to Wyoming. If you have a job in Wyoming, pay will be higher than in small town, KS and will make up for the higher COL, but if you're earning your money elsewhere, you'll be paying a premium to live in Wyoming or most other western states.

To answer some of your other questions, however, wind and air temps are greatly affected by elevation, so while Cheyenne, Laramie and most of the other towns across southern Wyoming are further south, they're not necessarily any warmer because they're also higher in elevation. That also contributes to the higher winds along southern Wyoming. Laramie's elevation is about 7100' while Sheridan's is about 3700'.

The standard atmospheric lapse rate is 2 degrees centigrade (or 3.6F) per 10000 feet, so that 3400 foot difference equates to about 12 degrees F. If you jump in your car in Sheridan and start driving up the mountain, at 7100 feet you'll find the cool weather you could expect in Laramie -- except it may be a little cooler because it's further north. Higher elevations also have higher winds, particularly in the winter when the jet stream dips to lower altitudes.

When I had a personal plane I made numerous trips from Wyoming to Iowa. Heading east I always flew as high as possible (without using supplemental oxygen), typically picking up an extra 40-60 mph with strong tailwinds at 12K feet. Headed west back to Wyoming, I flew as low as I could without getting too much turbulence to stay out of those stronger winds.

So if you want warmer weather and lighter winds, google the elevation for towns you may be interested in. Natural windbreaks, such as mountain ranges, will often offer some protection from the winds in areas on the leeward side of mountains, but elevation always has a significant influence on weather.

Hi WyoNewk!

I'm starting to find that out about the much higher COL in WY vs the midwest. I guess I'm not sure why, since WY has such a low population and so many people say the wind and cold there are so brutal. I guess because it is just so beautiful?

Funny you should mention Sheridan...we were looking there as well as near the western SD area and wondering if the weather was a little easier to deal with than southeast WY. I think we would prefer to live on the 'right half' of the state somewhere to be a little closer to our family members in the Midwest, so we are looking at the areas you mentioned mainly. So according to what you are saying (I like your plane explanation), Gillette or Sheridan would still be somewhat warmer? Or would only Sheridan since I have read it is 'shielded' somewhat by the mountains? I will definitely Google the elevations for the towns as you've suggested - I hadn't really thought of that too much since I was looking at other stats.

[movingagain2012]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

typo there WyoNewK ... that lapse rate is per 1,000', not 10000'.

but correct re the cooler temps in the high altitude southern wyoming plains areas compared to northern wyoming lower altitudes. given the typical frontal path distributions across wyoming, it's pretty normal for it to be cooler on a summer day in cheyenne than sheridan.
Or, in the winter with cold fronts coming through, to be colder in Cheyenne than Sheridan.

speaking of typical winds aloft, I flew cheyenne to sheridan for meetings last summer and stayed about 1,500' AGL heading northward to avoid the headwinds. With an early AM departure, there was no turbulence. Coming home that early evening, I caught tailwinds that saw a 70+ mph increase in my ground speed, and I only needed to climb to 4,000' AGL.
Sure was nice to see 225+ over the ground in an old 182 .... and didn't need to climb up to oxygen altitudes. It was a smooth ride, too. Could've seen more increase to go higher, but in such a short distance it wasn't worth the climb.

You guys are just so cool! So this is again confirming that the NE part of WY might fit us better - like Sheridan or possibly Gillette. We would like the area to be warmer if possible but still a large enough population so we are not *too* isolated.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by movingagain2012

Sheridan...we were looking there as well as near the western SD area and wondering if the weather was a little easier to deal with than southeast WY.

In my travels, Sheridan is a much more pleasant place to spend a winter than down here in SE WY. I've been on sales trips to the area and enjoyed moderate winter conditions while my wife reported difficult weather (roads, livestock conditions, etc) at our ranch in SE Wyoming ... to the point where she's advised me to not be in any hurry to drive southward because the road conditions were so poor from Casper southward. I've camped out in my RV at the Sheridan city park in the depths of winter and it was pleasant camping with a self-contained Class B RV; I even saw some tent campers come through, although they did set up next to the bathroom and run a dropcord out to their heater/electric blanket (but they appeared to be quite comfortable).

While the winter temps may not be that far apart, there's much more wind, gusts, and extremes of weather in the SE area.

COL issues depend upon the markets and sales volumes that are supported. With the low population base dispersed over such a large area, transportation costs per unit or item are significant for most hard goods and there's a limited amount of agriculture targeted to human consumption crops. With very little statewide manufacturing base, virtually all consumer goods are "imported"; as well, virtually all of the produce in the grocery stores. With the development of the highway system and affordable transportation, you'll see that many of the very small towns which may have had a relatively sizable downtown/commercial districts in days of limited transport are now very marginalized. Folks head out to the larger towns for their shopping and needed services. Not just to the larger towns of Wyoming, but out of state to Billings, SLC, Rapid City, or the Front Range of Colorado (Ft Collins is close, but Denver beckons); trips that aren't unusually distant by Wyoming standards.

Land prices are driven by several factors, with the obvious tourist oriented areas price points far beyond the productive value of the land. Water availability becomes another significant factor; there's not a lot of it in much of the state available for use. Wyoming is a headwaters state and much of the water that originates here is required by interstate compact agreements to be delivered to adjacent states or even further away downstream users.

Keep in mind that about 50% of Wyoming is public lands, either Fed or State ... so not available for residential development ... and much of those lands are in the prime areas of the state. That makes for a limited availability of private landholdings in the area, so the laws of supply and demand come into play.

With a choice of Sheridan or Gillette ... for me, there's no contest. Sheridan, while far smaller, is one of those places that works for me.