Someone please explain your water laws... (Cheyenne, Jackson: sales, house, buying)

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

It is an amazing concept to me. I grew up with artesian wells and never had any thought of water use ( very soft water/ few minerals). Moving here, I nearly choked on the hard water for a few weeks...in college and apartments, water just came with my rent. My husband bought our place when it was on well water in the early 1970s. The same year, county water came in and you had to choose one or the other - and you still paid for the pipes they put in along the road!. ... seeing as our water was very, very hard, we opted for the county water ( we cut off the well and pump and hooked up to county; the well is now hand pump only ; it still could be used for the garden if need be -- even still able to pipe and hook up if county ever stopped and went dry. In any case, I have always had all the water that I never needed to think about, at low cost. Plus, we have a creek on the land: lots of reeds, little water most of the time, but sometimes it floods after a few days of rain or a good snow melt. We consider it our water - I guess that would not be so there.

You definitely have what I call a unique system there. Given we have a high water table , most people hit water on the first drill in this area; however, I do know my husband's great aunt had problems with the well being consistent where she lived and they pumped to a covered cistern in a room off the barn and piped water into the house. She had to be careful of her use -- this was the first part of the 20th century / that area is now on a county system supplied by a dam, built 1950.

I guess every area does what works for them. I doubt I will ever understand your system!

Thanks for the explanations.

I have always looked at of like this. If it is liquid, be it oil, water, etc, you have to have permission to use it and your permit dictates how much. You have 'rights' based on what your permit says.

Had a friend that had a very small creek running through his place. It dumped into a larger creek at the edge of his property. He wanted a little joy pond, so he rerouted the creek while he built a small pond with concrete dam approximately 50 ft across. He built it so the creek would still have the same input and output, but have the small pond trapped with fresh water still circulating. Once complete, he routed the creek back to where it was. As soon as it was discovered, he was threatened with some very heavy fines unless he tore it all out. He simply hadn't gotten permits to start with. He thought that as long as he still had the same flow at the edge of his property, he would be fine. That was not the case.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

I have always looked at of like this. If it is liquid, be it oil, water, etc, you have to have permission to use it and your permit dictates how much. You have 'rights' based on what your permit says.

Had a friend that had a very small creek running through his place. It dumped into a larger creek at the edge of his property. He wanted a little joy pond, so he rerouted the creek while he built a small pond with concrete dam approximately 50 ft across. He built it so the creek would still have the same input and output, but have the small pond trapped with fresh water still circulating. Once complete, he routed the creek back to where it was. As soon as it was discovered, he was threatened with some very heavy fines unless he tore it all out. He simply hadn't gotten permits to start with. He thought that as long as he still had the same flow at the edge of his property, he would be fine. That was not the case.

What would they do if beavers did the same ?

[jody_wy]

my water right search is about a 1/2 inch thick some pages are 12" x24" mechanical drawing of diversion, ditches and maps

[BuffaloTransplant]

It is quite an interesting concept. Technically very entangled

[jody_wy]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

It is quite an interesting concept. Technically very entangled

actually mine have maps and descriptions of the creek and what it is a tributary too. If gives the location of the diversion and tells how many acres are allowed to be irrigated in what quarter of what section of what town ship of what range. really pretty easy

[BuffaloTransplant]

Since the EPA wants to cover and rule on land that is flooded or wet in any season from snow melt or heavy rain - even a puddle ( which I HOPE & PRAY never goes thru - we have a creek that rises in melt and rain and also a low area which 'floods" by EPA defintition)..... how do you think they would mess with your rights? Or would WY try to handle it first and tell them to take a hike (which I hope yo do if such a thing ever occurs)

[Claim Jumper]

I dont see how they track/ if you dont use it or use it. Especially if its from a river, creek, or canal.
And to lose your right if you dont use it does not make sence..imo.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by Claim Jumper

I dont see how they track/ if you dont use it or use it. Especially if its from a river, creek, or canal.
And to lose your right if you dont use it does not make sence..imo.

Around here, there are what we call ditch riders that periodically ride the ditches to monitor water use. Also, if you are taking more than your fair share, the neighbors down stream will notice because they are getting shorted.

[sunsprit]

In those years when water is in short supply and high demand, the delivery and use of water will be obvious. That's where the "green growth" is located next to the barren brown stuff. You don't have to be a genius to figure out who has water and where it's being applied. So the ditch riders and anyone who has an interest in water deliver can easily see who is taking water and putting it to beneficial use.

That's the difference between the arid West and riparian states of the USA. Here, water use is apparent because it's so limited in availability. There, it's taken for granted. As a farmer, I marvel at seeing 3-4-5 cuts of dryland alfalfa harvests where here in Wyoming, it's rarely possible to get more than 1 cutting per year without irrigation.

Don't be misled by the pix posted by Jody where it looks like a huge amount of water is abundantly available throughout this state. His is an enormous (and, need we observe, valuable) water right and his pictures show a good delivery to irrigate his land. OTOH, most of Wyoming has but a fraction of the water he's got available and it's delivered in much smaller quantities.

The standard of delivery is but 1 CFS per 70 acres of land and there's no guarantee that the water will be functionally available from it's source throughout an irrigation season. Most of us irrigators could post pictures of our ditch water delivery and from the perspective of a riparian area resident, they'd not even think that it was a tiny creek across their property.

Keep in mind that Wyoming is a source state for water and has to deliver a lot of water downstream to adjacent states for their use per Federal water compacts. Functionally, there is a limit each year on how much water is actually available yet the compacts dictate how many acre feet/CFS flow must be delivered each year. These demands on the water sources mean that a water right holder here in Wyoming may look to their source and not see any water available. This is the stuff of lawsuits between states, close monitoring of water use here in Wyoming among neighbors, and everybody keeping an eye out for water use that may not be in conformity with the water rights. It's a very big deal here, not something you can take for granted.

An acre foot of water is approx. 326,000 gallons. 1 CFS of water is approx. 1/2 acre foot/24 hours. If water is available, that might work out to delivering a 1/2" of water in 24 hours per square foot of land. Compare this in a area where 12" of total natural moisture per year could be a very good year (average in Cheyenne, for example), with much of the moisture falling in the winter months as snowfall not benefitting a growing crop during the warm months. In a riparian area, a 1/2" of rainfall could fall within 20-30 minutes as a matter of routine weather every few days throughout a warm growing season. There's the effective difference in water abundance for all purposes; it waters the crops and there's enough surplus run-off to sustain huge rivers throughout the regions along with many creeks and streams. In Wyoming, the bulk of the water may be only snow and once that melts in the spring, the run-off (mud season) is done for the year. What isn't captured in reservoirs or natural lakes is either delivered downstream or some is captured in acquifers.

PS: Functionally, many Wyoming irrigators may find that at any given time in their irrigation season that there isn't enough water from their source to irrigate for 24 hours without moving their water delivery across the field. From a practical standpoint, you might only get 1/4" of water delivered and then need to move your water onto another area of the field; ie, you don't have enough water to irrigate the entire field all at once. It can be a lot of work to get the water delivered to your property and then to distribute it effectively and efficiently.

[eiafjam]

I am from the government and am here to help