Wyoming Income Article (Cheyenne, Casper, Gillette: rental, refinance, loan)

[Heit]

Hopefully this link works.............


Wyoming Tribune-Eagle Online : Wyoming income levels near top

[Kristynwy]

Thanks for sharing that article...

The income and working economy here is wonderful....

Too bad they didn't mention about no where to live... On one hand you can find plenty of work on the other can not find a rental...

I just heard on the news Wyoming is ranked 3rd most livable place... and while I agree, I am just bewildered why on earth they do not look into housing??? Work and Economy is the most important yes, but housing is another important necessity that have discouraged some from taking jobs here at the same time...

[Heit]

I agree. Seems like it would be a GREAT opportunity for general contractors who are willing to build homes for a "reasonable" price. I know some contractors in Cheyenne who have built homes in the low 100K to 200K and they sell like hotcakes!

[Kristynwy]

If they were down around 100k instead of 190k and up, they would sell like hot cakes here in Sheridan and Buffalo.... lol...

Cheyenne has a little more rental availability last I checked and home prices....
But I haven't checked for several months lately...

[ElkHunter]

Ok, here goes.

We don't need any more houses built.

Oh, I can feel the heat after that statement. But let me explain.

Right now, we're at the peak of an energy boom. In two to three years, in Sheridan, we'll loose about 800 families that move with the boom. In Gillette, it will be even worse. Then what will we do with 800 empty houses?

Sheridan, Gillette, Rawlins, Rock Springs, and Casper have done a pretty good job of planning housing to fit the profile of the town. But they can't build to fit the needs of the peak, but must build to what they think the town will sustain over time.

I know it doesn't do anybody any good right now to not find housing, but it sure wouldn't be good to have 800 empty homes in a couple years. Prices would come down, yes, but they would come down rediculously. For what people are paying right now, and the morgages they have, when the boom ends, the rental prices will drop and they won't even be able to make their morgage payments even if they are lucky enough to keep their house rented.

They'll either have to drop their rent prices, or it will stand empty. Something coming in is better then nothing coming in.

It's too bad they couldn't set up temporary housing like Boe'ing used to do for their folks. Then when they left, they took it with them.

Wages will do the same thing. They won't lower peoples wages that are already working, but they will lower entry level wages.

[Kristynwy]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

Ok, here goes.

We don't need any more houses built.

Oh, I can feel the heat after that statement. But let me explain.

Right now, we're at the peak of an energy boom. In two to three years, in Sheridan, we'll loose about 800 families that move with the boom. In Gillette, it will be even worse. Then what will we do with 800 empty houses?

Sheridan, Gillette, Rawlins, Rock Springs, and Casper have done a pretty good job of planning housing to fit the profile of the town. But they can't build to fit the needs of the peak, but must build to what they think the town will sustain over time.

I know it doesn't do anybody any good right now to not find housing, but it sure wouldn't be good to have 800 empty homes in a couple years. Prices would come down, yes, but they would come down rediculously. For what people are paying right now, and the morgages they have, when the boom ends, the rental prices will drop and they won't even be able to make their morgage payments even if they are lucky enough to keep their house rented.

They'll either have to drop their rent prices, or it will stand empty. Something coming in is better then nothing coming in.

It's too bad they couldn't set up temporary housing like Boe'ing used to do for their folks. Then when they left, they took it with them.

Wages will do the same thing. They won't lower peoples wages that are already working, but they will lower entry level wages.

You make wonderful points and that puts everything all in perspective... I really value your opinion, cause you have been here a lot longer that I have for sure

So do you think we are at the peak right now? and things will dip in 2 or 3 years? I remember what you have said about those who lay the pipeline how they will not have jobs eventually, and only those who maintain things...

That is one thing that has made my husband and I worry about buying a modular. But I think we would lose more value on the lot than the home, cause we would buy it brand new from the manufacturer/dealer... not a development thing, like quail ridge ect...

That is a good idea, what Boeing did with the temporary housing... Especially some of the "energy" companies, they could easily afford temporary housing for their employees. Cause this shortage not only affects young new families like mine trying to grow roots somewhere, but the locals children who are graduating from school and need a place to rent...

What about the new coal plants? I have heard that is one boom that will keep on going... but the others such as methane ect. aren't as stable

Thanks for your input you are always right on the money elkhunter

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by Kristynwy

You make wonderful points and that puts everything all in perspective... I really value your opinion, cause you have been here a lot longer that I have for sure

So do you think we are at the peak right now? and things will dip in 2 or 3 years? I remember what you have said about those who lay the pipeline how they will not have jobs eventually, and only those who maintain things...

That is one thing that has made my husband and I worry about buying a modular. But I think we would lose more value on the lot than the home, cause we would buy it brand new from the manufacturer/dealer... not a development thing, like quail ridge ect...

That is a good idea, what Boeing did with the temporary housing... Especially some of the "energy" companies, they could easily afford temporary housing for their employees. Cause this shortage not only affects young new families like mine trying to grow roots somewhere, but the locals children who are graduating from school and need a place to rent...

What about the new coal plants? I have heard that is one boom that will keep on going... but the others such as methane ect. aren't as stable

Thanks for your input you are always right on the money elkhunter

I think we're pretty much at the peak right now. Take a look at the pipeline running from Gillette to Sheridan. It's almost done. This summer should finish it and then all they'll have is feeder pipes running back into the hills.

As far as coal is concerned, we're also about done around here. Big Horn coal is all but completely shut down. Decker only has a few good years left. Spring Creek is on the same drift as Decker. Now Gillette is a different story. They've only opened up the North end of a drift. That drift runs clear down into Hanna/Elmo area by Interstate 80. So that area will feed coal for a long long time.

Methane comes from coal beds. Thankfully, it doesn't take as much of a coal bed to produce methane as it does to mine it. So even though there's not enough coal to dig up, there's still enough to produce methane properties.

As far as land and a modular are concerned, your probably in good shape. Land will always hold it's value much better then anything you put on top of it.

Where people have gotten into trouble is over extending theirselves above and beyond their good old Wyoming wages. For instance. They buy a house for $100K and have it for a couple years. Interest rates dropped so they go to refinance and find out their house is now valued at $180K. So they refinance for $180K. Then two years later the housing market busts and the value of their home is $150K. To them, they're behind the 8 ball by $30K. But they are not! In truth, their house, after only about 5 years has went up $50K. That's pure profit from what they paid had they not chose to refinance so they could get that new one ton ford 4x4.

So as long as you are reasonable with purchasing a new modular and setting it up on a foundation. Then over time, improve the property. A garage, or shop, plant trees, landscape, etc. You should do fine and be relatively safe.

[jakeandkristalhoof]

I know that you were not talking to me Elkhunter but thank you for the information!!!!!!!!! That is some wonderful advice. That helps us (young family) hopeing to set roots down in Wy. We have wondered what happend after a bust. We are hopeing that if we get a job over there it will be secure even with a bust. The more we look into Wy the more we like. Again thank you for the information!

[wyoman]

Originally Posted by Kristynwy

If they were down around 100k instead of 190k and up, they would sell like hot cakes here in Sheridan and Buffalo.... lol...

Cheyenne has a little more rental availability last I checked and home prices....
But I haven't checked for several months lately...

Kristynwy? Don't let current trend get you down! Seem to have a good head on your shoulders? I know it might seem hopeless to find the place of your dreams? Are you and yours ready to do something you'll regret 2-3 years down the road? This is a so called boom town at this time-but sheridan has been here a long-long time, and will be here for a long-long time! Don't get discouraged-don't lose your goal! Set it! Stick to it! I know there are people throwing money around like grass seed-buyin big fancy homes, but is that really gonna satisfy you and yours? Who's your neighbor gonna be in a month? A year? Will you ever really get to know them and call them friend? Prepare your future to meet your goals! Don't get anxcious and ruin your dream! Forgive me for tryin to tell you what to do!

[Kristynwy]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

I think we're pretty much at the peak right now. Take a look at the pipeline running from Gillette to Sheridan. It's almost done. This summer should finish it and then all they'll have is feeder pipes running back into the hills.

As far as coal is concerned, we're also about done around here. Big Horn coal is all but completely shut down. Decker only has a few good years left. Spring Creek is on the same drift as Decker. Now Gillette is a different story. They've only opened up the North end of a drift. That drift runs clear down into Hanna/Elmo area by Interstate 80. So that area will feed coal for a long long time.

Methane comes from coal beds. Thankfully, it doesn't take as much of a coal bed to produce methane as it does to mine it. So even though there's not enough coal to dig up, there's still enough to produce methane properties.

As far as land and a modular are concerned, your probably in good shape. Land will always hold it's value much better then anything you put on top of it.

Where people have gotten into trouble is over extending theirselves above and beyond their good old Wyoming wages. For instance. They buy a house for $100K and have it for a couple years. Interest rates dropped so they go to refinance and find out their house is now valued at $180K. So they refinance for $180K. Then two years later the housing market busts and the value of their home is $150K. To them, they're behind the 8 ball by $30K. But they are not! In truth, their house, after only about 5 years has went up $50K. That's pure profit from what they paid had they not chose to refinance so they could get that new one ton ford 4x4.

So as long as you are reasonable with purchasing a new modular and setting it up on a foundation. Then over time, improve the property. A garage, or shop, plant trees, landscape, etc. You should do fine and be relatively safe.

Thanks Elkhunter I had it all backwards lol
It is the opposite in other words, it is not the land I need to worry about as much as the home losing value, so in other words maintain it and improve as time goes on and we should safe...

One thing my husband & I do is try to stay very frugal (not sure if frugal is spelled right but you get my meaning ) I am scared to death to take a loan out based on a home's equity, I have seen too many young people like myself get into trouble, especially with this sub prime market, that scares me to the point of being a penny pincher lol My husband will never give up his older trucks for a new one either... he doesn't like the new stuff lol...

Thanks again... you have help put my mind at ease to keep on pluggin along