What does "right to work state" mean? (Rock Springs: health insurance, lawyers)

[sunsprit]

I've lived and worked in "right to work" and unionized states. Since I chose to "ride for the brand" and work with the prospect of increased pay and responsibilities, I found that right to work places were much better for me than a union shop.

Currently, Wyoming is experiencing a labor shortage due to several segments of the booming economy. If you want to work here, there's lots of opportunities and jobs. Wages are rising to try to attract workers.

At the same time, housing and land prices are skyrocketing. To justify coming here, you'd have to want to be here for the other benefits of living in Wyoming.

So, the "right to work" issue is in your favor here ... if you are willing to be a productive worker.

[stonedout]

for those of you who think right to work state is the way to go i got one ?
dont you have that same right to work in the other 49 states. only difference is some of those state protect you and other look out for their own interest.

[sunsprit]

stonedout apparently doesn't understand that where ever you work, there's only one person looking out for you, and that's yourself.

In my experience, the union doesn't look out for you. The union looks out for itself and effectively works to protect the "slackers" at your job. Union representation doesn't elevate job pay for the best, it brings all down to the lowest common denominator that's the maximum pay rate that an employer can tolerate and still be competitive.

The business of a business is not to produce jobs and full employment. The business is there to provide goods and services for a profit. Without a profit incentive, there are no jobs. If a union demands labor rates and benefits above what a company can operate at, then there will ultimately be no need for the union and the laborers when the company goes out of business.

Having worked in a "closed union shop" job where my forced dues went to support union employees/negotiators drawing big salaries whose job was to tell me how great a job they were doing for me ... which they weren't, and to support political causes which I didn't support, I can't say the union did anything good for me. I left that job after 3 years and got a 40% hourly pay raise immediately in a non-union shop that didn't tolerate any slackers .... and it wasn't the management that enforced that work ethic, it was my co-workers who knew our value as productive workers; our good pay came from a savvy employer who knew and recognized our value to the company. Some years later, the business became a union shop and it took only a 4 years more for the place to go out of business ... it had employed over 40 diesel techs and bodyman/painters.

While I was there, I watched a couple of "union only!" techs leave to take jobs at the city maintenance departments for police or fire department vehicles. They were "strongly advised" by their co-workers and supevisors to "slow down and quit making them look bad". For example, if they were doing brake jobs on cars, their "suggested" maximum was two brake jobs per day. Ever seen a MIDAS shop only do two brake jobs per man day? (I don't mean to pick on MIDAS, but techs there know how much more they can do to earn their day's pay). I used to see more of these union guys at their (my) old shop "test driving" the cars and goofing off then I saw of them when they worked at our non-union shop.

In Wyoming, there's still workman's comp and unemployment insurance mandated by the state for workers. Those aren't benefits paid for by a union, they're paid for by your employer. Jobsite safety is a company responsibility ... and no employer today wants to put themselves at risk over something so trivial as a defective extension cord, with the prospect of increased insurance costs, worker injury, etc..

IMO, if you value a safety net more than an opportunity, then you're going to be a lot happier somewhere other than Wyoming.

[jdavid93225]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Having worked in a "closed union shop" job where my forced dues went to support union employees/negotiators drawing big salaries whose job was to tell me how great a job they were doing for me ... which they weren't, and to support political causes which I didn't support, I can't say the union did anything good for me.

The unions crack me up.

First they come out and tell us what they've done for the workers they represent, such as the 40 hour work week, paid vacation, paid retirement, medical and dental coverage, etc.

Next they come out and tell their members, and whoever else will listen, how to vote. Pick the candidate that supports giving health care to everyone! Pick the one that supports Social Security! Pick the one that votes for worker's rights! And so on.

If the members constantly vote for, and ultimately elect, the candidates that the unions support, and the candidates do even part of what they claimed they would, wouldn't those benefits be given to everyone?

If so, why would we need unions? It seems like they are working themselves out of a job (as they seem to have already done in a lot of areas).

[YOU-CANT-EAT-SCENERY]

If a union ever tried to get in where I work, and believe you me, they have tried, basically we as workers would be screwed. Of course the company would bargain in "good faith" because they have to by law, but they will never agree to any union contract, thus leaving us workers with frozen wages, and benefits for years.
I have also noticed that the ones that wanted the unions in, are the "slackers" with seniority...Hmmm go figure

[Jammie]

The state I live in is also a right to work state and there are very few unions here. There used to be the miner's union and also the meat packing union along with of course, the union that school employees have. I don't believe unions would fly too well here either. One department in the county formed a union and were so proud the first year because the union got them 50 cents an hour for a raise. The funny thing was that a lot of the other deparment employees got a 1.00 raise. I work for a place that has a union, but it isn't closed shop and I don't belong to it. I started just a bit above minimum wage and as far as I'm concerned, that's not union wages. I definitely won't give them 350 a year because I see the mess and unfairness and chaos they cause. Some people swear by their unions and I'm sure there are many good ones, but I hope to never have to join one.

The down side of not being in a union is that your employer can let you go without any warning. Yet you have to give them a two week notice when you leave. My employer could withhold my vacation pay if I don't give a two week written notice. I believe that employers should have to do the same when someone is let go unless it's for theft or assault or something that would be classified as a crime.

[sunsprit]

Jammie ... in a right to work state, if the employer can discharge you with no notice, then you have the same right to quit as an employee.

The "two week" notice is only a professional courtesy extended to your employer, but it's a good one for you to do because of benefits and the good relationship basis of your parting.

I've had good employees leave, thinking that another job offer was going to be better for them. I've no issue with an employee wanting to get a higher salary or a "better" job. The ones who left on good terms were welcomed back when it didn't work out for them, which happened several times.

The ones who burned bridges with me weren't, and some really wanted to come back to work for me after seeing what the other jobs really worked out to be. And I was truthful without any additional comment about them leaving without giving notice when asked for a referral.

I learned the value of a good relationship on leaving from a man I had the highest respect for. After heading his heavy rebuilding department for several years, I had an opportunity to buy a shop ... ongoing business/retirement situation ... on very short notice. I went to my boss's office to give him my notice, and had the most wonderful conversation and pep talk about going into business.

He offered two things which I found to be invaluable: (1) an offer to come down to the place I was buying and look at the books and the operation, for which he would give me his advice on how best to make it successful, and (2) a standing offer to come back to his place if my own didn't work out for any reason. He also allowed me to leave at the end of that week so as to get right into my new venture instead of working the two weeks.

Thanks to his knowledge and insight into the business, I was able to "jump start" my business on the right track and was making good cash flow in a few months. I've never forgotten his generosity over 25 years of my own shop and I've done the same for 5 of my former techs. They're all successful shops now and I'd like to believe that I was a part of making that happen.

To this day, my hat's off to Mr. Hugh B. I'm thankful that he treated his employees right and I was able to do the same for mine.

[jdavid93225]

Originally Posted by Jammie

The down side of not being in a union is that your employer can let you go without any warning. Yet you have to give them a two week notice when you leave.

Just tell them, "Boss, in two weeks, you're going to notice that I haven't been here for two weeks!"

[Jammie]

I love it. Wouldn't it be great if one could say that? Actually, it is a courtesy, but we are required to give a two week written notice or we lose all vacation pay that we hadn't used. I don't belong to a union, but the place I work has a union so it's bargained right into our handbook. I'm not sure that it's actually legal, but it'd cost a fortune to fight something like that just to get your vacation pay out.

Sunsprit, your ex boss was a very nice person and they're hard to find. I actually have no complaints about my boss and I would give a notice if I left because I know how hard they struggle to keep employees and how much trouble it is for them to replace people. But I think I will move on in the near future because I'd like to do something different for a while. I've been at the same place for ten years now and hope to stay another year and then do something different hopefully in a warmer climate.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

...there's only one person looking out for you, and that's yourself.....IMO, if you value a safety net more than an opportunity, then you're going to be a lot happier somewhere other than Wyoming.

thx for saying that!

It took me 25 yrs to figure that out...
I liked the book "Dying Broke". It stressed to consider yourself a private contractor in ANY position; - employers are just renting your time and talent. If you have a better way to spend your time; do yourself, and employer a favor, and leave.

my favorite line from book was; "Quit your job and don't tell anyone, especially your boss!" Meaning... (stay working), but...think of yourself as self employed, and be the best at what you do, and take your talents elsewhere if it is better for you. (be prepared for the consequences )

I'm pretty ole-school; "if my employer can find a better person for my position, they should be hired". , and me??? no entitlement's, just keep relevant and making your company successful, or find something else to do with your time.

WY needs responsible employees and residents