Mormons and Wyoming? (Lovell, Basin, Big Horn: to rent, mortgage, loan)

[PsykoKustomz]

Everybody will have good and bad experiences with any trype of subculture that they are not a part of or familiar with. There are many parts of the LDS religion that us "Outsiders" will hear from word of mouth, and we all know how things get changed when in that form. I have heard similiar stories like what Shadowwalker said but have not experienced it firs thand so I will stay neutral in how I feel about it. I have also on some of these posts how "they have freinds who are mormon and dont got to services every sunday or pay tithing, and they like to have a drink every once in a while" That is all fine and good and trust me I have a lot of friends that are of the LDS faith that are the same way, but they are in a group(not trying stereotype here) called "Jack Mormons" Which basically is that they are of the LDS faith but do not however participate in everything that others of the "faith" do. Than on the other hand there are ones that are so into the ideals and belief of the church it is almost impossible for them to see it any other way but theirs and they will look and or treat others differently. This basically just goes back to the few will create a stereotype for others that in many instances is wrong or creates a inaccurate perception of things.

[lisan23]

Originally Posted by PsykoKustomz

Everybody will have good and bad experiences with any trype of subculture that they are not a part of or familiar with. There are many parts of the LDS religion that us "Outsiders" will hear from word of mouth, and we all know how things get changed when in that form. I have heard similiar stories like what Shadowwalker said but have not experienced it firs thand so I will stay neutral in how I feel about it. I have also on some of these posts how "they have freinds who are mormon and dont got to services every sunday or pay tithing, and they like to have a drink every once in a while" That is all fine and good and trust me I have a lot of friends that are of the LDS faith that are the same way, but they are in a group(not trying stereotype here) called "Jack Mormons" Which basically is that they are of the LDS faith but do not however participate in everything that others of the "faith" do. Than on the other hand there are ones that are so into the ideals and belief of the church it is almost impossible for them to see it any other way but theirs and they will look and or treat others differently. This basically just goes back to the few will create a stereotype for others that in many instances is wrong or creates a inaccurate perception of things.

Very well said.

[WyoMama]

Well - sorry I forgot which person in the Book of Mormon was the cursed one (it was 20 years ago) but I'm not senile - I have only talked to one other person who knew about the form to complete regarding financial records. My husband is mormon. I'm not ignorant of the doctrine, etc. And he played football in 71-74 at UW & then Southern Utah State. The blacks wore black arm bands because there were civil rights laws were enacted in 1972 that did require blacks be allowed in all colleges, country clubs, etc. That is fact but it's too late and I'm too tired to cite it - I will try to find a site of that this wknd.

I have nother else to say - we WERE talking about influence, not mormon bashing. I was sharing my PERSONAL FIRST-HAND experience. I'm sorry you feel I am senile or something. Signing off of this topic as I do not appreciate being personally attacked.

[shadowwalker]

lisan23, at the time of the job infractions. The oilfield was on its knees. A barrel of oil was at one of the lowest rates in years. We had people losing jobs at a staggering rate. Companies were folding or merging all over the Rocky Mountains. I was transfered and lost jobs for years. It was the early 1980's. I kept my job or got another one. OH, for main reasons. TO FEED AND CARE FOR MY FAMILY. I got away from those businesses asap. I couldn't change it so I stood it until I could get out. One company I was subject to a spot check of my truck glove box. It was to be done by the owner and also the manager and assitant manager. What was they checking? They were looking for the small book of mormon. They insisted every company truck to have. I was to have it there. And they did check for it. I was subjected to this for over 1 1/2 years. Hey I had a job, and it was their truck.
On the housing? Well first. In Evanston in 1979 we were denied a rental trailer in Yellowstone court. We got in another trailer from another person. In the court throught where I worked. Oh, how we were surprised when the one we origionally tried to rent was vacant for almost a month. Many people we knew tried to get in it. We finally saw a family move into it. UH, guess what? They were part of the same mormon church that the owner went to in Evanston. I drove by this trailer leaving mine. Several times a day sometimes. We saw this several more times before we left.
And another time I tried to rent three houses in Powell,Wyoming in 1992 just before my wife went into the nursing program there. I had a good paying job, AA+ credit and rental references. We were given several reasons for not being able to get them. Uh, guess what again. I found the houses rented out "after" we got ours. One by over two months later, and at a lower monthly rate. I was transfered into my job and had made friends with mormons at work. They told me about the clicks in town and who rented the houses.
I watched a man from Laramie,Wyoming. Come into Powell in 1994, try to rent a small business office in several places only to be told that they were either "up for renovation", "in negotiations", "we decided not to rent it". Again in Powell,Wy.
Now he came into town and bought a house with a loan from out of town. They sure sold that man the house. But couldn't get a business license or rent a business space there. He finally had to take it all to Cody,Wy. And sold his house there too. Several of those business spaces rented out after he was told no.
I don't know if you ever tried to fight a town. But starting something like that. Your family and you suffer, as far as the "laws" go. That's a joke. In wyoming. Like a big barking dog on the porch. Might intimidate some, but it has no teeth to bite anything, and the crooks know it.
Now, for you on a waiting list. It has changed, maybe. And with the influx of the many families, they can't exactly do business as before. But these are things I personally have suffered and had to take.
I don't want to make this sound like a attack on you. But I have witnessed alot of things and kept my mouth shut. Some outright unlawful, some just nit picky and degrading.I sucked in my pride as a man. Went back to it the next day. Just to keep that job. I see people doing it now at other companies and professions. You do what you have to to survive this world.

[lisan23]

Shadowwalker, I couldn't disagree more. I am a liberal in Utah, and I stand up for every injustice I see. Yes, I'm LDS, but no I don't believe we should be able to tell others what to do. (Which is my own personal issue with the LDS church.) I say something when I think someone's been treated unfairly due to religion, it doesn't even have to be myself. (Or treated unfairly due to any issue.) I guess unlike you, I just can't "bend over and take it". I do have a family, a husband and kid. Clearly things have changed in Evanston. But I have never ONCE lost a job because of the complaints I filed because I knew how to do it right. It was YOUR CHOICE not to stand up against them or do anything about it. You chose not to do anything, so honestly you can't really complain about it.

WyoMama, please reread my post. I don't think it's unreasonable that I question your memory of events that happened 20 years ago. I'm asking you to provide proof for your statements about blacks being admitted into BYU (not any other school). If you'd like to take offense to what I said, so be it. But nothing I said was offensive and I have never once thought (or said) you were senile.

[PsykoKustomz]

Here is the thing; "bend over and take it" is a fact of life in any corporation. You start complaining about religious injustices is a workplace and especially if it is a big one you really have to watch your back. This is especially true if you do not know who handles your HR claims or what their personal ties are to the specific person and or any other beliefs they may have. If you become a "whistle blower" it is true that a company can not fire you for it but they can make your work experience as miserable as LEGALLY possible. When there are families on the line that need to be considered than you have to think about more than just the injustices being done to you but how it will effect the big picture. Shadowwalker can correct me if he needs to but I think this is the point he was trying to nail home. Especially in the gas and oil industry there is a lot of ways that a company can make your work experience absolutely horrible but stay within the realms of being legal. It is sometimes easier to "grin and bear it" rather than stepping on toes and than get out of that certain position and or company when it is best for you and the others that need you.

[shadowwalker]

I kept my family fed and a roof over us. For decades. I saw other men lose their intire lives. Home,family,career. Due to "whistle blowing". There is no one to tell when the private sector problems like this occur. That will protect you and your job. When you see that happen a few times, you shut your mouth. As far as not being able to say much. Well you read it didn't you. So did alot of other people. IF I can, anytime I can, make people wary of the possibilities of living in a mormon controlled town, and yes they are still around. They can make good decisions that won't cost them alot of money or heartache, I had "friends" that I knew for many years and worked with, enjoyed off job time with them. When they were working out of the town they lived in, anyway. When I moved into their towns some of them wouldn't even come in my house. Because someone from the church might see them do it, I guess. They sure found my front door before.
I have lived in towns where I have been in the minority. It dosn't feel good at all. That church is just one of the ways it can happen.
I am now living in the bible belt. I don't go to a church. Now, down here that is a problem. Alot more than I thought it would be.

[emeraldsky]

Originally Posted by shadowwalker

Thriftylady. I would like to let you know about my personal reference of Mormon Influence. Not gettin a loan for a house, but having that ability in a town 35 miles away. For almost twice the loan amount,to live in the town you couldn't get one in. Watching people not get hired at private and public jobs, again not mormon. Jobs were filled by lesser qualified church members. Watching people not get professional licenses in the city. Because of church...

Shadowwalker, I'm having a hard time accepting everything you've stated at face value. I'm sorry, but my trust was a little shaken when you said you received a letter in the mail declaring what you owed in tithing.

That doesn't happen to members of the LDS faith, let alone those who aren't. You see, the LDS church works the same anywhere you go in the world. I've been a part of congregations overseas as well as stateside. That just would never happen. So forgive me if I question other things you've written...

I just can't imagine any guys bringing a Book of Mormon to work to put in their little truck box because it's required by an employer, let alone 3 people in management going along with checking for it. That's ridiculous, not to mention illegal. An LDS employee would have complained, let alone almost anyone else not of that faith.

And I just can't help but question how you knew the religious affiliation of anyone you ever worked with in business, as well as either party in all those other injustices you sited where other townfolk were victimized.

I mean, when you sit down to apply for a loan, do you ask the loan officer what their religion is and then make sure you let them know where you stand? Just to get that all out in the open before you sit down and apply for a loan?

Or when you apply for housing, or ask if you can hunt on someone's land, or buy what they're selling?

When you heard someone was denied for a license or didn't get the job they wanted, did you rush on over and inquire about the religious background of all involved, including those who did end up getting the job? I'd say you were a busy man. And that it just doesn't sit with me.

Sometimes we just don't get the jobs we want because someone else was better qualified. And loan amounts and eligibility vary from company to company.

Sure, you must have some beef apparently with the LDS church or people. We're just as human and fallible as the rest of the population. But can you say that we are all generally corrupt businessmen and women? Because that's what it sounds like you're implying. Have you ever met a person of the LDS faith that you thought was decent?

For me personally, I generally have no idea whatsover the religious background of anyone I deal with in business or become casually acquainted with in friendship...

Shadowwalker, I don't like to step on anyone's toes. Honestly. It's just I know there are some people who make a habit out of falsifying and twisting my beliefs, and who put a lot of energy into doing all they can to give the LDS church a bad reputation. I'm not saying you're one of those people, just letting you know where I'm coming from.

I'll take your word for it that you've felt victimized or discriminated against on the basis of religion, because I know it happens, among all groups and kinds of people. But I have to say that the behavior you describe is not representative of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a whole, and in no way reflects our religious beliefs. Therefore I just can't accept that it's as pervasive as you imply.

I do sincerely wish you the best in selling your home in TN and in moving soon to the WY you love.

Originally Posted by alpine

Lived in Alpine for 3 years; that area is heavily LDS. As far as frequently Mormon run businesses, you could not find nicer people. In fact, never had a bad experience as far as casual acquaintences.

Thank you alpine.

[emeraldsky]

Shadowwalker, I just reread my post and I feel like I could have said things better. My sarcasm got the better of me and I apologize for that.

I guess I have to accept the fact that you and others really have been mistreated by members of the LDS faith at times, or you wouldn't have said so. It makes me sad, and embarrassed. I don't want to disrespect you or discount your personal experiences.

I was born in the 70s (and don't remember any of it) so I really can't speak to what life was like in the 70s like you were describing.

The thing is... is that when I feel an entire group is being labeled negatively (unless they are a group specifically formed to harm others - like terrorists and prejudice groups and the like) a red flag goes up for me. Especially when it's my own religion and from my own personal life experiences I see things much differently. The LDS folk I know in general live and treat others much better from what you've described.

My mom is in a position of authority at her place of business (She's LDS and lives in UT) and is in charge of hiring. She is fair and just and good to all she works with. In fact I know she goes out of her way more so to make people not of the LDS faith feel welcome. As well as people of other ethnicities that she works with. That's just her. My brother (LDS and lives in UT) owns his own business and just like my mom, hires solely based on qualifications. I could go on with so many I know and am acquainted with in similar positions.

There are good and bad in any group really, and varying degrees in between. I just would like to see more of a balance in representation I guess.

Here are a few links that speak to some of the good influence of the LDS people, in case anyone wants to hear about that...

Humanitarian Services Giving Site

Newsroom - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(I especially think it is cool the article about LDS and Baptist youth working together to clean up a Houston neighborhood)

Intermountain Catholic

[LucasMetaphor]

Originally Posted by lisan23

Sorry, I've been reading through and I've seen a few people post about areas of Wyoming being run by Mormons, including Evanston. Um... coming from Utah to Wyoming that is definitely NOT the case. You guys don't have state run liquor stores and can buy alcohol on Sunday.

Before you say Wyoming is run by mormons, try Utah. You'll feel like Wyoming is a liberal state.

What is wrong with the Mormons? I think they live a good life and there is hardly any crime among Mormon Communities!