Jackson and mountain lions, how do you hike? (Wilson: home, scorpions)

[wheregirl]

Hello,

I have read that there are mountain lions in or near Jackson. So how can one stay safe on a hike? Carry a gun, (a stunt gun) or what (learn to shoot first)? I don't have any nasty dogs to count on. How do you deal with those wild animals? Any other wild animals? Thanks.

[BennyPhoenix]

Chances are a mountain lion will see you first and it will either go away, watch as you go away or attack you. If it attacks you, you will not see it coming. They tend to attack from behind and above.
Mountain Lion attacks are rare in the US. IMO, the best defense is a large and powerful dog that will defend you. Lions do not want a fight, they will run if they get into one. A good dog can put up a serious challenge, serious enough that the lion would likely run away.
Also, hiking in groups is a good idea.

[wheregirl]

I've heard that if you hike with others it would also depend on who are the others and how fast you can run. Do people in Jackson or Wy in general carry something to defend themselves when out, or do they just take their chances?

[NVDave]

Originally Posted by wheregirl

I've heard that if you hike with others it would also depend on who are the others and how fast you can run. Do people in Jackson or Wy in general carry something to defend themselves when out, or do they just take their chances?

They're all over the rural west. I mean, ALL over. From California to the front range of the Rockies, mountain lions are everywhere, especially at higher elevations in the summer, lower elevations in the winter.

In general, you don't want to run from a cat. Prey runs. Cats don't want a confrontation - as previously indicated, if you confront them, they usually back down. They want to attack from above/behind or the side with stealth, speed and surprise on their side; once their stealth is blown, they don't usually want to pursue an attack because they've lost their advantage. You want to face the cat, and "get big" - raise your hands, raise your voice, etc. Chucking rocks works too. Give the cat room to get out of the situation and they're usuallly gone.

Even smaller dogs are useful - just for blowing the element of surprise.

I've been out hunting chukar up high on mountainsides, circled around and seen that a cat has crossed my tracks not 20 minutes after I've been there -- ie, they were close, darned close, when I went through the area. Best defense is to keep your head on a swivel, keep looking around, look for spoor, footprints, other evidence of a cat in the area first. Guns are nice.... IF you have time to use them. If you have no situational awareness, odds are that any cat that attacks you will have an advantage if you're not strong enough to fight it to a standstill before you deploy a gun.

[wheregirl]

Well, thanks for the great advice. Now I am having second thoughts about moving near beautiful nature out in the west... I took it for granted that we feel safe in nature in Northeast. Now I wonder whether I am still a nature-lover...

[NVDave]

Originally Posted by wheregirl

Well, thanks for the great advice. Now I am having second thoughts about moving near beautiful nature out in the west... I took it for granted that we feel safe in nature in Northeast. Now I wonder whether I am still a nature-lover...

C'mon. Seriously. Let's put the risk into perspective here. You can die at any time in the outdoors from any number of things. The outdoors isn't like some city park, with perfectly groomed lawns and benches to sit on... you could die from lightning strikes, falling off a cliff, snow avalanches, animal attacks, poisonous spiders, scorpions (in the southwest), snakes, etc.

In the northeast, you can get bit by a rattlesnake, copperhead, coral snake... heck, I've been bitten by a poisonous spider when I was a kid in the northeast and had to go to the hospital twice because I was having severe difficulty breathing. I've picked up rocks in upstate New York and wanted to put them right the heck back down... because there was a copperhead under them.

Life is about managing risk. The northeast isn't quite as safe as you think, and while the west is more dangerous, it isn't going to kill you if you use your head.

If anyone here should have been bait for a cat, it is me. I've hunted alone at high altitudes in Nevada, which is absolutely covered in cats.

In 1998, I was hunting mountain goat in the East Humboldt range, south of Wells, NV. I was above 9,000' about 45 minutes before dark when I spotted the goat I wanted. I shot it, skinned it out, quartered out the meat and.... it got so dark, so fast that there was no way to get down the mountain that night. All I had with me was my day pack, some food, some water, my rifle. It was going to get down to about 20 degrees that night at 9,000 feet, and I didn't have a sleeping bag, nor a sleeping pad, and there wasn't any ground to stretch out on.

So I found a rock corner to protect my back, sat in the corner with my rifle and pulled the goat's head up onto my chest, using the pelt to cover most of my body. I slept pretty well that night, but I made sure the meat was cached a ways away from me. Still, if a lion had wanted a piece of me, he had me dead to rights if he came at me from below, trapped in a corner. The meat, the skinned hide, the head in my lap -- all a big fat calling card "Free Food! Goat and Human Buffet!" If worse came to worse, I had my rifle with me, but if I had to use that thing, a .338 with a muzzle brake is deafening and can permanently damage your hearing with one shot without hearing protection (a side effect of the recoil-reducing muzzle brake).

I would have thought really hard before pulling that trigger.

Got through the night just fine. Saw plenty of cat spoor on the way down the mountain the next morning. Still, what I was more concerned about was exposure to the cold and wind, not cats. Cold and wind, coupled with a little bit of moisture, and you can get into trouble with the greatest of ease, with really fatal results. I got around that by using what I had at hand - a mountain goat pelt. It wasn't pleasant sleeping face-to-face with a dead mountain goat, but I'm here to tell you about it almost exactly 10 years later.

[MRVphotog]

The only mountain lions in Jackson known is a small family that has been living on the National Elk Refuge for years. Very protected, no hiking allowed. Might be others in the area but no mountain lion/people incidents so far.

There are griz. When I moved to Jackson in 1979 a grizzly/people incident was very rare and only in the northern part of the valley near the YNP border. Now they are more numerous in Jackson Hole due to the increase in their numbers in YNP.

If you encounter one in the wild they can attack, kill and eat you if you don't follow good hiling common sense. Between YNP and JH there are a couple of bear attacks every summer, people are killed and some even partially eaten.

In Yellowstone the most dangerous animal is actually the bison. Due to tourist stupidity a couple of people are killed every year.

Guns are not allowed in either Yellowstone NP or Grand Teton NP. Hunting outfitters and ranchers in the Absoraka range northeast of JH do carry weapons, lots of griz there, but there are rules when they can or cannot use them.

Most hikers don't carry weapons and never see a griz. Some carry bear repellent(pepper spray) as a defense but personally I think they mostly just make them mad and increase the liklehood your going to end up as a bear snack.

[paintersspouse]

"The only mountain lions in Jackson known is a small family that has been living on the National Elk Refuge for years. Very protected, no hiking allowed. Might be others in the area but no mountain lion/people incidents so far."

Simply not true! There are sightings all over Jackson and the surrounding areas. They captured three babies after the mother was liked in Wilson this spring. There have been many on the Snow King mountain
They have been seen on the bridge by my home 45 min from Jackson.

That said , there has yet to be a problem for hikers. You do need to take care for all wildlife when hiking( that includes bears) but the odds are you will never have a problem.

[wheregirl]

Well, between the lions and bears, I don't know how well one can enjoy the beautiful scenary. I am so glad that I don't have to look up every tree to see if a lion is hiding up there now. How can quality of life be good there if you have to constantly watch out for your life?

[MRVphotog]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

"The only mountain lions in Jackson known is a small family that has been living on the National Elk Refuge for years. Very protected, no hiking allowed. Might be others in the area but no mountain lion/people incidents so far."

Simply not true! There are sightings all over Jackson and the surrounding areas. They captured three babies after the mother was liked in Wilson this spring. There have been many on the Snow King mountain
They have been seen on the bridge by my home 45 min from Jackson.

That said , there has yet to be a problem for hikers. You do need to take care for all wildlife when hiking( that includes bears) but the odds are you will never have a problem.

Forgot about the Wilson thing but other than that I haven't read in the paper about any other "people/lion incidents" - someone being injured by a mountain lion. Seems like there would be some livestock issues with mountain lions in the JH area?

It's ironic that millions go to YNP and the one thing they want to see is a griz. From or near their vehicles of course. Rarely do they ever see one. If there is a griz visable from the road your gonna witness a "animal jam" of epic proportions. :lol: