Property taxes in Cheyenne (Casper, Laramie: wood floors, sales, real estate)

[cassie98]

We are thinking of relocating and were wandering what the property taxes were like in the Cheyenee area? Approx a $250k home with a few acres. thanks

[sunsprit]

Very difficult to forecast the property taxes on the basis of your posting.

Is the property in the City limits of Cheyenne, or in the county?

What zoning is it in?

Is the main value of the property in the improvements, or the land?

Since Wyoming is a non-reporting state for real estate transactions, you are not privvy to the sales data that the county assessor uses for determining property valuations for taxation. In reality, you are looking at a "retail" sales price point, but the tax assessed value is based upon other numbers. Just because you pay $250,000 for a place does not mean it will come anywhere close to that valuation because of the database of "comparable" properties sold; ie, your place could be a lot less, about the same, or a lot more when assessed.

"It all depends".

The best indicator for likely taxes in the near future is to find out what the current taxes are on it.

FWIW, Wyoming has mil levy tax rates that are generally among the lowest in the country.

[cassie98]

Thank you so much for your response, your last sentence answered my question! This is good news. Thanks again!

[SkunkApe]

Look here:

Wyoming Department of Revenue

You're taxed on 9.5% of the market value.

Cheyenne's total millage rate is 127.75 mills. One mill is one dollar of tax on every every thousand dollars of taxable value. See here:

Why Wyoming - Community Profiles - Cheyenne

So your taxable value would be $250,000 X .095 = $23,750

Your annual property tax would be ($23,750/1000) * 127.75 = $3034.06

Sunsprit's right about the low taxes. In Michigan (downriver Detroit) in 2007 I paid about $3400 per year on a house that was never worth more than $170,00, and that I was lucky to sell for $128,000 after the the economy crumbled. And that was after being capped, by law, at a maximum 5% tax increase per year as long as I owned it.

Also keep in mind that Wyoming has no state income tax. Michigan, in comparison, has a state tax of 4.35% of federal adjusted gross income. Many cities have an additional income tax on top of that.

Good luck with your move.

To anyone considering a move to Wyoming, please remember this: Governments do not create wealth, and therefore cannot "pay" for anything. Every government program is paid for by people. Governments take money from some people, under threat of force, and give it to others. Keep this in mind when advocating your favorite government programs. Thanks.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by SkunkApe

Look here:

Wyoming Department of Revenue

You're taxed on 9.5% of the market value.

Cheyenne's total millage rate is 127.75 mills. One mill is one dollar of tax on every every thousand dollars of taxable value. See here:

Why Wyoming - Community Profiles - Cheyenne

So your taxable value would be $250,000 X .095 = $23,750

Your annual property tax would be ($23,750/1000) * 127.75 = $3034.06

Sorry, but this is not correct. You are "assuming" that the "fair market value" as determined by the county assessor is the same as the "sold price".

That's not how it works in Wyoming. Since it's a non-reporting state for real estate transactions, only the parties to the transaction who have a need to know the details know the numbers, along with the county assessor who receives a confidential transaction report.

That's what makes real estate transactions a difficult situation in Wyoming; absent a recent appraisal by an independent appraiser, you have no way of knowing what the price point is for comparable properties except for the "local knowldege" ... which is confidential and cannot be specifically disclosed to you ... held by a real estate agent. In practical terms, this means that an agent may have been a party (or his agency) to a comparable transaction, but cannot ... by law ... disclose to you that number. The agent may use that inside information to assist pricing for a potential seller, and may use that information to guide a buyer to a good price in the marketplace.

But that agent also knows that he has the advantage for the pricing. He may know, for example, that a comparable house actually sold recently for much less money than the asked price on a house he's now showing you. He will not tell you, suggest to you, or advise you to make a lower offer knowing that it might be closer to the recent market activity. It makes for a real "fishing" game for real estate in this area; you can only base your buying decision upon looking at the available selection on any given day.

You may find houses/properties reasonably priced and somewhat comparable. You may find a house that is clearly priced a lot higher than the others that day ... perhaps somebody's "fishing" for a buyer, as in: "if somebody would pay X's dollars for this place, I'd sell it". That "X's" dollars price may be above, at, or below the comparable properties on any given day, priced on rumor of other deals, or a mark-up of what the folks paid for it years ago, or just out of thin air (it's the number it would take to buy that little place in Arizona we want to move to, etc.).

So, here's the bottom line: The assessor knows what the properties have been selling for, knows the soils/water/irrigation, and knows the cost per square foot of various types of construction and amenities found in the houses/properties that have been recently sold.

With that confidential information in hand, the county assessor determines a valuation for a property each year. Unlike some states that only re-evaluate properties upon change of ownership, or every so many years (every other year in Colorado, for example), Wyoming assessors send out a new property assessed valuation every year. In recent years, some properties have gone up, and some have gone down ... it all depends upon the ACTUAL SALES PRICE information of transactions in the area, and you do not know that information.

As a result, a property you purchase for $250,000 may be assessed at much less, about that amount, or for much more than that amount. What you paid for it is not the determinant factor, what it measures up against on other comp's in the whole county is the factor.

I know of properties around Laramie County that have been bought for $250,000 and have been assessed at a fraction of that amount. The taxes weren't a few hundred dollars per year. All because the quality, location, condition, and other comparable factors in the market matched other places that sold for a lot less. As a buyer coming in from out of the area, you are at the mercy of the real estate agents whose only responsibility is to the seller ... and they'll gladly show you and sell a property for much more than a number of comparables or recent sales, as they have a vested interest in the higher price point sale.

I strongly urge you to do your own research and due dilligence on any property you are looking at in Wyoming. Do not depend upon your real estate agent for anything except the time of day, moisture and sunshine report. And depend upon that information only when you're present to verify it.

[SkunkApe]

Yes, my calculations do assume the sale price is the market value.

Regarding market value, the Wyoming government website states that:

"Market value is the price your property would sell for if it were offered for a reasonable amount of time. This assumes that both the buyer and seller are unrelated, well-informed and under no pressure to buy or sell the property."

Sunsprit, as a long-time Wyoming resident, has the advantage over me here when it comes to assessed values vs. actual selling prices, so I'll defer to him as to what actual variations may exist.

For what it's worth, I used the method I described above (with local millage rates) when I bought my house in Casper. The actual taxes are within $50 of what I calculated.

I second what sunsprit said about doing your own research. As stated, Wyoming is one of the (few) states where home sale prices are not public record. You should, however, be able to get a good idea of what a house is "worth" (the markey value) by checking the list prices of similar local homes on the various internet realty sites.

Good luck.

[sunsprit]

IMO, the most likely sales prices that will come close to assessor's valuations are in newer subdivisions where a builder/developer set their price points and there's some consistency in that local marketplace for those homes of common sizes, lot sizes, and soils.

Where the big differences between "sold price" and "assessed valuation" will happen is in older properties.

When all is said and done about the statutory language that guides the county assessors, the reality is that they are dependent upon actual sales data and must uniformly apply it to all the properties in the county as the benchmark for valuations.

It does make for an interesting, but one-sided, conversation when you challenge an assessor's valuation. As it did locally last year, with a lot of assessed increases. Our county assessor and staff set up a remote office in the county for the purpose of hearing all the complaints from just about every owner in the area as the valuations went up 18-30% for almost everybody.

Basically, they have their numbers derived from sales, and can tell you that a framed house works out to X's per square foot, so what's the base measurement on your house? A code compliant modular is worth so much psf. Is the county information correct on your property's information card? Is the condition fairly rated? So that's X's times your calculated square footage works out to a Valuation. Then add in how many rooms, how many kitchen sinks, how many bathrooms ... each has an assigned valuation. Doesn't matter if you've got gold plated fixtures and marble countertops in your bathrooms, and gold leaf wallpaper on the walls ... it's going to be the same number per sink and toilet and shower stall and full bathtub and laundry sink, or washer-dryer hookups for similar age group housing. If the roof is in "good condition" and it's a shingle roof, it's worth so much per surface area ... and it's based upon the ground footprint of the house, even if you've got lots of architectural features and the next house has a simple flat roof. Similarly, outbuildings and barns not rated as living quarters are very inexpensively rated per square foot. Wyoming doesn't bother very much with finer details for older housing, it's not worth their time.

But this is how you can pay a top dollar for perceived value in interior finish details, built ins, upscale features, fancy light fixtures, specialty wood floors, floor coverings, fancy light switches, wall painting/decorative trim, etc., ... and wind up with a nominal assessed valuation much less than your sales price. There's a lot of "plain jane" houses out there that can (and apparently, do) skew the marketplace assessed valuations downward. I know, I live in one of the plainer of the "plain jane" houses, and paid accordingly. In our area, there's 25 plain jane houses for every "prairie palace".

[SkunkApe]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

IMO, the most likely sales prices that will come close to assessor's valuations are in newer subdivisions where a builder/developer set their price points and there's some consistency in that local marketplace for those homes of common sizes, lot sizes, and soils.

This meets the condition of the house I bought. I'm the second owner of a house built in 2005 in a new subdivision on the town of Bar Nunn.

Sunsprit speaks wisely.

[BennyPhoenix]

Wyoming needs a law to make this reasonable.
Someone who has been in their home for 20 years should not have his taxes jacked up just because his neighbors homes have recently sold at very high prices.
Your property taxes should not go up more than 2 or 3% in any year.

[cassie98]

Wyoming is one of the (few) states where home sale prices are not public record.

WOW! I didn't realize there were states out there that home sale and tax info were not public record. I know it is true about the variety of taxation, we have seen that, we owned one home 1450 sq feet on a large lot, $140k value, taxes were over $4000 a year, 20 minutes away, we owned an acreage home nearly twice the size at $210k taxes were $2400. Thanks again for the information from everyone!