Operating Engineers

[Irishtom29]

Sunny---I've known many union tradesmen that work out west; the locals are very large and may cover several states and the guys travel a lot. It's not as easy or convenient as working a big city local but whaddaya gonna do?

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Sunny---I've known many union tradesmen that work out west; the locals are very large and may cover several states and the guys travel a lot. It's not as easy or convenient as working a big city local but whaddaya gonna do?

Your friends that "work out west" with "large locals" aren't working in Wyoming ....

They're working in Nevada, Northern California, Oregon, and Washington.

"large locals" don't exist in Wyoming, even in the locations with big mining operations.

[Irishtom29]

I meant large geographically, you can bet your boots there are building trades locals covering the state of Wyoming. As for how much work they're getting I don't know. But it will be more.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

I meant large geographically, you can bet your boots there are building trades locals covering the state of Wyoming. As for how much work they're getting I don't know. But it will be more.

Gotcha ... large geographically.

A couple of observations on "union shops or jobs" in this area ...

The only time I see Davis-Bacon wage schedules for bidding projects is on FED or some State projects. That does level the playing field for the bidders between out of the area union contractors and the locals.

I believe that you'll find most trades in this state are performed by non-union shops.

As we mentioned in another thread to a fellow who was seeking to move to Wyoming as a painter, he wanted to know if "the mexicans" were here in the trade. Well, we all know what he was asking about ... if there was an ethnic group that was working for cheap wages in the construction trades out here. The answer is "yes, they are". And they've brought the competitive market down to a low bid point where union scale wages simply don't exist in a lot of market segments. One of the big reasons we have a housing shortage in our energy business "boom towns" is because trades people who come out here to work and find the high paying jobs in that industry will not work for the low wages in the residential construction market.

The effect is pervasive throughout many labor dependent businesses ... you can go to many towns and you'll see vacant restaurants, or signs in the entry area asking you to "please be patient for your service, because they're understaffed". If somebody is able to work, and they can get on in the energy business, they're gone from any other job. I've even seen a fast food franchise in Cheyenne close down because they couldn't find labor here.

Since we're seeing a decline in energy markets right now ... low prices for oil, less coal production forecast (please note our incoming President has vowed to shut down coal energy production ... and may achieve that through "cap and trade" policies with a very environmentally aggressive taxation and energy policy supported by a Democratic dominated Congress) .... I see a slowing down right now in the "boom town" economies of several areas of Wyoming.

Several suits by "green" groups are tying up ... again ... a number of what were previously approved coal-fired power plants in the Wyoming area, so those projects are unlikely to go forward now. It's not Wyoming that needs the energy ... it's the West Coast cities/grid that needs it. That unintended consequence may come home to roost in the form of brown-outs in a number of places out west.

So, IrishTom ... I hope your prediction that there will be more union projects in Wyoming is correct. But I see the forces lining up now to push Wyoming's economy way back and precluding capital development or new infrastructure here. Most of the DC attitude would have Wyoming nothing but a backwoods playground for the wealthy or privileged as the opportunities for extractive industries and supporting infrastructure here are aggressively being shut down. Our farming and ranching businesses don't need any more infrastructure .... and the contracting services they require are met by non-union shops.

[snowman0u812]

Dang, I didn't mean to cause a fight, just curious! lol. I should have been more specific with my question. I was talking about the heavy equipment operators union though. I saw on the I.U.O.E. website there is a local (I believe it is 800) located in Bar Nunn. I was just curious if they had a presence anywhere in the state. Sorry to get everyone riled up! If the president wants to shutdown coal, is it coal all together or just the lower quality?

[Clay Lady]

Obama's energy pick endorses nukes, clean coal | Green Tech - CNET News

Our new president wants to find ways to stop harmful emissions - ways to capture carbon safely. About the only thing business pays attention to is money so the threat or promise of fines for not making investments in clean burning technology is needed. They want reseach done, people to use the results of this reseach not shut down a natural resource. This is NOT just about Wyoming coal.

I believe some Universities in Wyoming are already doing some major research projects. Research needs more funding - that is what our new President wants.

[Irishtom29]

Obama doesn't want to shut down coal but he does want to clean it up which is aces with me, cleaning up coal makes LOTS of work for boilermakers.

Wyoming coal, Powder River coal, is popular with utilities because of it's low sulphur content. On the downside the stuff is VERY volatile and causes more explosions and fires in plants than other coal. Cleaning up coal plants with anti-sulphur devices like SRCs may lead to less use of Wyoming coal and more use of eastern coal, Illinois and such.

[imbobbbb]

Originally Posted by snowman0u812

Dang, I didn't mean to cause a fight, just curious! lol. I should have been more specific with my question. I was talking about the heavy equipment operators union though. I saw on the I.U.O.E. website there is a local (I believe it is 800) located in Bar Nunn. I was just curious if they had a presence anywhere in the state. Sorry to get everyone riled up! If the president wants to shutdown coal, is it coal all together or just the lower quality?

Well i didnt expect all the drama either.I think i pretty clearly stated that i didnt know how the union was doing in wyoming,I was just pointing out from my admitted limited experiance with the operating engineers union that in my experiance MOST people inquiring about 'operating engineer union jobs'would be talking about heavy equipment operator jobs rather than stationary engineer jobs.It appears that that is what you 'were' talking about.I didnt say that the union in question 'only' represented heavy equipment operators,as a matter of fact i mentioned that they also represented stationary engineers in my second post,and someone else mentioned surveyors,which i also recall.I dont know where all this 'business model stuff ' came from that sunspirit is talking about,I didnt offer any business model,i was just trying to point out that you were likely talking about heavy equipment operator jobs not hvac jobs......which you were.I even agree with most of what he said in his doctoral dissertation on 'wyoming economic realities vs those in urban mega-cities'...........which doesnt change the reality that a 'surveyor' isnt an 'operating engineer',even if they belong to the same union.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by imbobbbb

which doesnt change the reality that a 'surveyor' isnt an 'operating engineer',even if they belong to the same union.

It was Blakeman in Post #6 that mentioned surveyors ... not me.

Too bad you can't read what's posted and know who posted it. So much for your dig about "doctoral dissertation". I was trying to be informative upon a subject for which many folks don't have a clue about Wyoming .... which appears, despite your superior knowledge about the unions in your area ... to be somewhat lacking.

I certainly don't know about your local unions, and didn't post about them, except to refer to the general "business model" of how unions make money for their operations and staffers. Without that cash income, a union doesn't exist ... even in your town ... people forget that a union is a business unto itself. Don't believe it? just look at the salaries and benefits they pay to the union management and staffers.

[imbobbbb]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

It was Blakeman in Post #6 that mentioned surveyors ... not me.

Too bad you can't read what's posted and know who posted it. So much for your dig about "doctoral dissertation". I was trying to be informative upon a subject for which many folks don't have a clue about Wyoming ....

I didnt say that 'you' posted about surveyors so perhaps you could do better about reading the posts of others yourself.I also recall saying that i 'agreed' with most of your points in your 'doctoral dissertation' so it wasn't a 'dig' at you at all,you just choose to take offense at things whether any was intended or not.The issue that started this whole affair to begin was my suggestion that the op was likely asking about heavy equipment operator jobs not hvac jobs...which he was ,which started you off throwing stones at me.Neither irishtom nor i suggested that every craft should or did have their own union,we only said that everyone represented by the 'operating engineers union' did not meet the unions definition of the job description of what an operating engineer ' is',but are called other things like stationary engineers,and blakeman pointed out and i recalled that they also represented some surveyors.The only reason i posted initially was because i thought that you and the op were talking about two different jobs...which you were,and thought someone who better understood what he was asking might be better able to answer his question since you were talking about a different craft altogether and i admitted from the get-go that i didnt know anything about union strength in that area.I will concede sunspirit that you possess near encyclopedic knowledge on many subjects but the fact remains that on this one i thought you and the op were talking about two different things...and you were. This is a public forum,not 'ask sunsprit',so when you post answers others may not agree ,even when you are 100% right ,(and you often are ),so it is pointless to get in a huff because everyone doesnt consider you the final word on every subject under the sun.I'm done with this subject so you can have the last word on this thread if you wish ,if i wanted to fight endlessly i would stay on the political board,i try to stay friendly on the wyoming board.