Commuting from Victor, Idaho to Jackson, Wyoming (Cheyenne, Laramie: campers, live in)

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

The roads between Jackson and Star Valley and Idaho have improved greatly and commuting is no longer the challenge it used to be.

Really? Has the weather pattern also "improved greatly", too?

In my experience, it's not just the snow on the road that's the issue ... it's the blowing and drifting snow which hides the roads, as well as the almost zero visibility in the storms/squalls.

I've spent a lot of time up in the general area, based out of Dubois, and winter travel throughout the region has been "dicey" for us since the 1970's. As a GA pilot, getting in/out of Jackson isn't too reliable, either, during the winter months ... due to low hanging clouds and obscuration that reaches all the way down to the ground in many areas except for the valley floor.

[paintersspouse]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Really? Has the weather pattern also "improved greatly", too?

In my experience, it's not just the snow on the road that's the issue ... it's the blowing and drifting snow which hides the roads, as well as the almost zero visibility in the storms/squalls.

I've spent a lot of time up in the general area, based out of Dubois, and winter travel throughout the region has been "dicey" for us since the 1970's. As a GA pilot, getting in/out of Jackson isn't too reliable, either, during the winter months ... due to low hanging clouds and obscuration that reaches all the way down to the ground in many areas except for the valley floor.

Thousands of people make the commute on a daily basis. The roads have been widened and improved greatly in the last 10 years.

Commuter buses travel both routes to Jackson several times a day for those who don't wish to drive themselves.

Weather happens everywhere. The airport closes maybe a few hours a year for bad weather, the roads are no different.

Travelling these roads is not rocket science, its just good old fashioned common sense.

I live here and deal with the facts on a daily basis, maybe that counts for something.

[sunsprit]

"thousands of people make the commute on a daily basis" ... I doubt it. A few hundred, maybe ... but thousands?

You may have a lot of skills, but a pilot you're obviously not. I've spent way too many days where access to Jackson via a GA aircraft was not possible from Dubois due to weather/obscuration and low visibility (hard IFR) conditions at Jackson. The airport may not be "closed", but that doesn't mean that it's accessible to any except the most high-tech airline level operators. If you had had the benefit of Sparky Imeson's mountain flying seminars ... sadly, no longer available due to his recent untimely death ... you'd know a lot more about the weather patterns in the area and their effect upon aviation, as well as the visibility in the storms.

These aviation weather risk factors are no different than driving the roads in the area. Even I-80 and I-25, which are rather major roads in the state compared to what's in the area under discussion ... are treacherous drives for much of every winter due to blowing snow, ice, winds, and low visibility. Are they still open then? Yes. Do commercial operators (buses and trucks) still run schedules then? Yes. But are they conditions that you'd really want to deal with on a daily basis commute during that time? Not especially, even with a well equipped vehicle set up properly for the conditions. It's still a treacherous drive during those times, even with common sense and prudent driving skills.

I've had employees who thought commuting between Laramie and Cheyenne would be a cake-walk, too. After the first few months of a typical Wyoming winter, they realized it wasn't very feasible, nor pleasant taking all those risks on a daily basis. IMO, it's not much different than what the OP is seeking here ... a fairly treacherous commute from outside the Jackson area on a daily basis. Yes, people do it. But it's a value judgement ... how many times every day do you want to take such risks for the sake of a job in Jackson?

[paintersspouse]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

"thousands of people make the commute on a daily basis" ... I doubt it. A few hundred, maybe ... but thousands?

You may have a lot of skills, but a pilot you're obviously not. I've spent way too many days where access to Jackson via a GA aircraft was not possible from Dubois due to weather/obscuration and low visibility (hard IFR) conditions at Jackson. The airport may not be "closed", but that doesn't mean that it's accessible to any except the most high-tech airline level operators. If you had had the benefit of Sparky Imeson's mountain flying seminars ... sadly, no longer available due to his recent untimely death ... you'd know a lot more about the weather patterns in the area and their effect upon aviation, as well as the visibility in the storms.

These aviation weather risk factors are no different than driving the roads in the area. Even I-80 and I-25, which are rather major roads in the state compared to what's in the area under discussion ... are treacherous drives for much of every winter due to blowing snow, ice, winds, and low visibility. Are they still open then? Yes. Do commercial operators (buses and trucks) still run schedules then? Yes. But are they conditions that you'd really want to deal with on a daily basis commute during that time? Not especially, even with a well equipped vehicle set up properly for the conditions. It's still a treacherous drive during those times, even with common sense and prudent driving skills.

I've had employees who thought commuting between Laramie and Cheyenne would be a cake-walk, too. After the first few months of a typical Wyoming winter, they realized it wasn't very feasible, nor pleasant taking all those risks on a daily basis. IMO, it's not much different than what the OP is seeking here ... a fairly treacherous commute from outside the Jackson area on a daily basis.

Being a pilot really has nothing to do with commuting by road to work.

Yes thousands! Not an an exageration but a fact.

Jackson Hole Chamber of Commerce
"At present, 37% of Teton County's workforce commutes from somewhere else, most notably Teton County, Idaho and Lincoln County, Wyoming. In other words, 63% of Teton County's workforce lives in Teton County. These percentages equate to over 8,000 workers commuting daily into Teton County from somewhere else. "

Facts not Fiction.

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

Being a pilot really has nothing to do with commuting by road to work.

Only if you don't understand that Mother Nature doesn't have separate weather for pilots, fisherman, outdoorsman, and commuters on the roads. When it's hard IFR conditions in the 'hole for aviation, it's also really cruddy conditions on the roads. The weather pattern with moisture, high wind velocities, wind gusts, obscuration, and similar normal wintertime weather affects all outdoor activity.

In fact, the weather will clear and allow reasonable flying conditions in the valley faster and more frequently than the roads can and will be cleared from the snow/ice conditions.

Yes thousands! Not an an exageration but a fact.

Jackson Hole Chamber of Commerce
"At present, 37% of Teton County's workforce commutes from somewhere else, most notably Teton County, Idaho and Lincoln County, Wyoming. In other words, 63% of Teton County's workforce lives in Teton County. These percentages equate to over 8,000 workers commuting daily into Teton County from somewhere else. "

Facts not Fiction.

Yes, that's a wonderful 2007 CofC article about the housing conditions in the Jackson area forcing workers to commute in, but it doesn't differentiate between the workforce that commutes in from the surrounding Wyoming counties into Jackson vs the ones that commute in over the pass from Victor, ID. I's still bet that it is that it's a matter of only a few hundred that commute in from the Victor area, at the most, on a daily basis. Which is what the thread was about from the OP ... not commuting in from the Star Valley or from the Bondurant area (which appears to be a bedroom community for Jackson's workforce, too).

My assertion that it's less than a pleasure to make that commute on a daily basis is borne out by my friends that did it from their family farm in Driggs to seasonal jobs in Jackson for years. Yes, it's possible ... but you can count on having a number of white knuckle moments virtually every day of the winter.

[paintersspouse]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Yes, that's a wonderful 2007 CofC article about the housing conditions in the Jackson area forcing workers to commute in, but it doesn't differentiate between the workforce that commutes in from the surrounding Wyoming counties into Jackson vs the ones that commute in over the pass from Victor, ID. I's still bet that it is that it's a matter of only a few hundred that commute in from the Victor area, at the most, on a daily basis. Which is what the thread was about from the OP ... not commuting in from the Star Valley or from the Bondurant area (which appears to be a bedroom community for Jackson's workforce, too).

My assertion that it's less than a pleasure to make that commute on a daily basis is borne out by my friends that did it from their family farm in Driggs to seasonal jobs in Jackson for years. Yes, it's possible ... but you can count on having a number of white knuckle moments virtually every day of the winter.

The fact is you have no real hands on knowledge and only supposition for the basis of your statements.

8000 people commuting daily on 3 highways into Jackson and you think that only a few hundred of those are from Idaho even though that is the shortest commute.

The following figures are from the year 2000. The numbers have risen dramatically since then and at that time Idaho's numbers were over 1000.

Teton County, Wyo. jobs 2000
TC, Wyo. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 10,909
Sublette residents who work in TC, Wyo. 134
Lincoln residents who work in TC, Wyo. 895
TC, Ida. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 1,014

Fact not fiction or supposition

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

The fact is you have no real hands on knowledge and only supposition for the basis of your statements.

8000 people commuting daily on 3 highways into Jackson and you think that only a few hundred of those are from Idaho even though that is the shortest commute.

The following figures are from the year 2000. The numbers have risen dramatically since then and at that time Idaho's numbers were over 1000.

Teton County, Wyo. jobs 2000
TC, Wyo. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 10,909
Sublette residents who work in TC, Wyo. 134
Lincoln residents who work in TC, Wyo. 895
TC, Ida. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 1,014

Fact not fiction or supposition

Idaho may be the shortest commute, but Driggs' population is only about 1,300 people, and Victor is significantly less than 1,000.

Your assertion that "thousands" of people commute in from ID over the pass every day would require virtually that the ENTIRE POPULATION of these towns and the outlaying areas commute into Jackson every day. Not only that, but of that total population pool, not everybody is of age to be an employee ... if you've ever been there, you might have noticed that they do have children of school age and even younger.

The folks there have their own farms, ranches, schools, businesses, commercial operations, and other forms of economic activity which keep them there ... not doing jobs in Jackson. It's simply nonsense to even suggest that everybody empties the towns every day to commute to Wyoming for work.

[paintersspouse]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Idaho may be the shortest commute, but Driggs' population is only about 1,300 people, and Victor is significantly less than 1,000.

Your assertion that "thousands" of people commute in from ID over the pass every day would require virtually that the ENTIRE POPULATION of these towns and the outlaying areas commute into Jackson every day. Not only that, but of that total population pool, not everybody is of age to be an employee ... if you've ever been there, you might have noticed that they do have children of school age and even younger.

The folks there have their own farms, ranches, schools, businesses, commercial operations, and other forms of economic activity which keep them there ... not doing jobs in Jackson. It's simply nonsense to even suggest that everybody empties the towns every day to commute to Wyoming for work.

The majority of homes are not located in the towns. The 2007 estimated population of Teton County Idaho was above 8000.

Have you seen the amount of homes built just in between Driggs and Victor?



Total labor force in 2004: 4,182

http://www.city-data.com/county/Teton_County-ID.html


I have not made up any of the numbers. All are verifiable and posted on the web.

"According to the County’s extension office, Teton County was the second fastest growing county in Idaho from 2000 to 2005 with a 24.5% population increase. Various reports have stated that Teton County has experienced a 4.5-7% growth rate annually. This population increase does not reflect the influx of second homeowners and the prominence of the second home market "



Facts not supposition

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by paintersspouse

The majority of homes are not located in the towns. The 2007 estimated population of Teton County Idaho was above 8000.

Have you seen the amount of homes built just in between Driggs and Victor?



Total labor force in 2004: 4,182

http://www.city-data.com/county/Teton_County-ID.html


I have not made up any of the numbers. All are verifiable and posted on the web.

"According to the County’s extension office, Teton County was the second fastest growing county in Idaho from 2000 to 2005 with a 24.5% population increase. Various reports have stated that Teton County has experienced a 4.5-7% growth rate annually. This population increase does not reflect the influx of second homeowners and the prominence of the second home market "



Facts not supposition

Yes, according to the stats I've seen, the TOTAL POPULATION of Teton County, ID, is about 8,800.

Of that, I'll take your figure of about half that population are in the workforce.

But you keep insisting that "thousands" of people commute to Jackson from this area every day.

What you are asserting is that well over half of the workforce in Teton County, ID, commutes to Jackson every day.

Pure BS. Pure Nonsense.

They've got their own local winter recreational businesses, tourist businesses, a well-known downtown commercial center, shopping, hospitality businesses, restaurants, police and fire departments, county sheriffs, and all of the support and infrastructure jobs that are local, supermarkets, stores and shops. Plus ... they've got a large portion of their community involved in ranching and agriculture based jobs.

Based upon my former employees who were from Driggs, there weren't a couple hundred people that did the commute to Jackson. They didn't need to go there for a job ... it was more of the adventure of the high dollar resort industry/ski jobs and waiting tables for tips in high dollar restaurants to save money for college that brought them to make the winter drive. And they had lots of stories about some very close encounters with bad accidents on the roads there. FACTS from folks that lived there and did the commute, NOT Supposition.

[paintersspouse]

I have backed up my statements with facts.

Here is another report.

http://labor.idaho.gov/lmi/pubs/TetonProfile.pdf


Did you not read these 2000 numbers?
Teton County, Wyo. jobs 2000
TC, Wyo. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 10,909
Sublette residents who work in TC, Wyo. 134
Lincoln residents who work in TC, Wyo. 895
TC, Ida. residents who work in TC, Wyo. 1,014

Came from this report.
http://www.sonoraninstitute.org/inde...wnload&gid=539

I don't care what you believe. I did not pull these numbers out of thin air.
The other readers can decide for themselves.

You have provided nothing other than what you think that contradicts these numbers. You have no first hand knowledge.

Facts not Fiction