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I just wish more libertarians were anti-Republican. Republicans are a greater threat to libertarians...as they masquerade and SAY they are 'for' the things that libertarians are for, yet time and time again, the Republicans put us into more massive debt, etc.
This critique of the GOP is now null and void. For as much as the Bush administration ran up the national debt, they never ran it up high enough to start other countries (ie, trading partners) talking seriously about replacing the dollar as the world's reserve currency.
That conversation is happening now, as of this past month, in serious places like the IMF and World Bank, thanks to the projected increases in the debt going forward for the next 10 years. Oddly enough, all the people who were carping about the deficits and increase in the national debt during the Bush administration seem to have fallen silent as the deficits explode to levels that are scaring the crap out of anyone who holds US Treasury debt, agency debt or dollar-denominated assets.
As a result, the PRC is now proposing resurrecting the idea of the bancor, or a similar reserve currency backed by a basket of hard assets/commodities.
The national deficit didn't just balloon up in 2-3 months.
The massive corporate bailouts due to a very failed system began while Bush was still in office. A complete lack of regulation on corporations. Wall Street could do anything they wanted, banks could do anything they wanted, as many ripoffs and schemes could go as much as they wanted unchecked. It all caught up to him while he was STILL in office! That original MASSIVE 9 Billion dollar corporate bailout was a BUSH emergency and policy and idea!!
All of that occured because of Presidential policy for 8 years. The world works on 'cause-and-effect'. A president's policy or lack of policy make other things occur.
In addition, well-before that, most of the European Union and the Gulf States and everyone else you can imagine wanted to move away from being dependent on the U.S. dollar because few could stand the direction that George Bush was leading.
The idea that IMF and the World Bank or whatever other organizations just suddenly decided in the last 3 months completely out of the blue just because Bush isn't in office is taking some serious FOX/RUSH Limbaugh pill.
I do completely agree with you that the U.S. is in serious financial trouble...but to blame it 100% on Obama is a completely ridiculous allegation..and particularly that any criticism of GOP is now null and void. If McCain was in office, we'd have the exact same problem right now. Heck, even if RON PAUL had got into office (the ONLY guy that is for serious fiscal responsibility), we'd STILL be having the SAME problem right now.
WHY? Because we have to PAY for the massive fiscal irresponsibility of the Federal government the last 8 years, that doesn't just go away because a new man gets elected, regardless of who it would have been who got elected - even if Bush had somehow mandated himself 'President for Life', we'd still be having the EXACT same problem.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 04-21-2009 at 04:09 AM..
The national deficit didn't just balloon up in 2-3 months.
The massive corporate bailouts due to a very failed system began while Bush was still in office. A complete lack of regulation on corporations. Wall Street could do anything they wanted, banks could do anything they wanted, as many ripoffs and schemes could go as much as they wanted unchecked. It all caught up to him while he was STILL in office! That original MASSIVE 9 Billion dollar corporate bailout was a BUSH emergency and policy and idea!!
All of that occured because of Presidential policy for 8 years. The world works on 'cause-and-effect'. A president's policy or lack of policy make other things occur.
In addition, well-before that, most of the European Union and the Gulf States and everyone else you can imagine wanted to move away from being dependent on the U.S. dollar because few could stand the direction that George Bush was leading.
The idea that IMF and the World Bank or whatever other organizations just suddenly decided in the last 3 months completely out of the blue just because Bush isn't in office is taking some serious FOX/RUSH Limbaugh pill.
Wish I had time to respond to all of this but
A. Corporate bail out issue happened because the Republicans under Bush who tried to fix this long before it snowballed were voted down by Democrats. If you want to point fingers of blame, look to Barney Frank and some of his ilk, not Bush. Though Bush should have stepped in and overridden that crap that the Dems in congress opposed, it is not by any means his fault nor his administrations fault. YouTube - Barney Frank and Democrats Lie about Fox News - Bill O'Reilly - Republicans
Try watching more than CNN or MSNBC sometime
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
The national deficit didn't just balloon up in 2-3 months.
B. Obama has spent 36 billion dollars a day since he's taken office, more than all of the other presidents before him combined.... how do you not see this as ballooning???? My kid and grandkids and great grand kids won't even be able to pay off what he's burdened them with taxes, and he's only just begun..
All I have time for.. but you might seriously look into CREDIBLE sources of information sometime.
And for the OP.. I was a Democrat in my youth living in Wyoming and had no problems or issues. Now I'm a Republican and probably fit right in as well (no pun intended).
I would consider myself a libertarian, I am pro-choice, Anti gun control, I am an agnostic and am strongly opposed to government playing such a large role in ones life. I disagree with many conservative viewpoints, as I do liberal viewpoints. I have lived in North Dakota, Nebraska and now Wyoming (statistically three of the reddest states in the U.S.) Not because i'm a bible-thumping wacko gun-toting christian fundamentalist (which believe me i'm not), but because I love living here. There's nothing more to it than that. the Thing is, I love my fellow man and woman regardless of viewpoint.
IMO, such labeling is more likely to be offensive to both Democrats and Republicans in Wyoming than the intended insult of being critical of Republicans as bible-thumping gun-totin' rednecks.
Frankly, I know a fair number of local Democrats here in SE Wyoming, and they're as likely to fit the OP's image of backwoods rednecks as the OP's false portrayal of Republicans.
What really counts here is how you behave and perform as a neighbor ... which is why we have a fair number of both parties in our statehouse, as well as a Democratic governor. It's more about policies and fiscal responsibility than about party labels.
FWIW, my lawyer is a local Democrat party leader ... and yet, when we discuss what we want to see in legislation, programs, and regulations in this state ... we're not very far apart on many issues. I suspect he wouldn't do very well as a "democrat" in some very liberal states ... he's not big on social engineering and he's pretty strong on individual responsibility. Oh, and he's very strong on 1st and 2nd amendment rights ... and a heck of a good shot in the field as well as on the range at long distance target shooting. His gun cabinet is the source of much envy on my part ... and he's a heck of horseman, too. He even understands the fallacy of such programs as "cap and trade" ... which do nothing but transfer money from consumers of a needed commodity to a select few power brokers and politicians to play with. I don't see him as some sort of radical about any policy that benefits few at the expense of many ... and he's not big on taxes.
IMO, such labeling is more likely to be offensive to both Democrats and Republicans in Wyoming than the intended insult of being critical of Republicans as bible-thumping gun-totin' rednecks.
Frankly, I know a fair number of local Democrats here in SE Wyoming, and they're as likely to fit the OP's image of backwoods rednecks as the OP's false portrayal of Republicans.
What really counts here is how you behave and perform as a neighbor ... which is why we have a fair number of both parties in our statehouse, as well as a Democratic governor. It's more about policies and fiscal responsibility than about party labels.
FWIW, my lawyer is a local Democrat party leader ... and yet, when we discuss what we want to see in legislation, programs, and regulations in this state ... we're not very far apart on many issues. I suspect he wouldn't do very well as a "democrat" in some very liberal states ... he's not big on social engineering and he's pretty strong on individual responsibility. Oh, and he's very strong on 1st and 2nd amendment rights ... and a heck of a good shot in the field as well as on the range at long distance target shooting. His gun cabinet is the source of much envy on my part ... and he's a heck of horseman, too. He even understands the fallacy of such programs as "cap and trade" ... which do nothing but transfer money from consumers of a needed commodity to a select few power brokers and politicians to play with. I don't see him as some sort of radical about any policy that benefits few at the expense of many ... and he's not big on taxes.
Like a "blue dog" democrat? I'm originally from western N.C. and I was suprised to see that Heath Shuler (The former NFL bust and blue dog democrat) was elected congressman there. Not to mention Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, who is the sole rep. from the at-large district of South Dakota. They usually do quite well in traditionally "red" areas. Many members fill in that libertarian gap, without being labeled as something as unthinkable as a third party? Ohhh no.
A. Corporate bail out issue happened because the Republicans under Bush who tried to fix this long before it snowballed were voted down by Democrats. If you want to point fingers of blame, look to Barney Frank and some of his ilk, not Bush. Though Bush should have stepped in and overridden that crap that the Dems in congress opposed, it is not by any means his fault nor his administrations fault.
No doubt Barney Frank is at fault for not letting the Republicans know the true mess of the situation.
However, there were 10000000s of other warnings throughout by everyone else you can imagine. Frank became the scapegoat because he was an easy target to blame.
But most of it was inevitable when Bush called for 'All Americans to be homeowners' and pressuring Greenspan to constantly slash the federal funds rate from 6.25 to 1.75 percent. It was reduced further in 2002 and 2003, reaching a record low of 1 percent in mid-2003 - where it stayed for a year. It stayed LOW to encourage everyone you can imagine from my dog to your neighbor's pregnant teenager wishing to take out a half million dollars for the 1-bedroom down the street.
The expansion in risky mortgages to underqualified borrowers was encouraged by the federal government. The growth of "creative" nonprime lending followed Congress's strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act, the Federal Housing Administration's loosening of down-payment standards, and the Department of Housing and Urban Development's pressuring lenders to extend mortgages to borrowers who previously would not have qualified.
The resulting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who ended up swalling all of these bad loans was just the final tip of the iceberg. Saying that FRANK and ALL Democrats are single-handedly to blame in the year 2008 for not stating that all of their previously bad government policy was ruining the country...is, well, obvious that he should have...but not exactly Barny Frank's doing, he would have simply been the messenger.
My husband is a moderate democrat, and really likes living in Laramie. I'm a pinko commie liberal, so I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks, when I arrive in WY to live. I'm prepared to adapt to the changes that such a move will involve--if you're more open-minded than the phrasing of your question suggests, then maybe you'll enjoy Wyoming too.
My husband is a moderate democrat, and really likes living in Laramie. I'm a pinko commie liberal, so I'll let you know what I think in a few weeks, when I arrive in WY to live. I'm prepared to adapt to the changes that such a move will involve--if you're more open-minded than the phrasing of your question suggests, then maybe you'll enjoy Wyoming too.
I live in Laramie as well, it's definitely the most "liberal" spot in the state. I would think most are your cookie-cutter "I'm a liberal cuz I go to college and am therefore more educated on the issues" types, But I've met some interesting and intelligent people here...on both sides of the spectrum.
Is it possible to be a Democrat and live in Wyoming? Are there any parts of cities or towns, that are more liberal in Wyoming than conservative? Or is everyone basically right wing envangelical conservative republican?
You'll find that you can be anything in Wyoming -- as long as you don't force your views on others, look after your neighbors, live and let live, and don't try to make Wyoming like the place you came from.
However, if you're going to bring a partisan, "us v. them" attitude as is evident in your post, maybe you should consider another state. Please consider another state if that is going to be your attitude. I know liberals, libertarians, conservatives, atheists, agnostics, devout Christians, etc., and we all get along just fine. Why? Because we don't force our views on others or take a holier than thou attitude, aren't ignorant, and are respectful.
Let's try to keep it that way.
sugarbomb -- even though you're not here yet, welcome to Wyoming! I'm sure you will enjoy it.
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