From Alabama to Wyoming? (2009, unemployment, living)

[ElkHunter]

fawner55,

I can really appreciate what your saying. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting something better for family. But you obviously have a little more going for you to last this long in Mich.

2 years ago we had auto workers screaming into the state and when they went to get jobs the hollered about Union Wages and "What the hell do you mean only $18 an hour??? What about insurance, dental, etc....

So you outlasted them because you were smarter then the average bear. Trouble is, the not so average bear got here ahead of you and set up a precendence of "I Want".

a few years back several auto workers got canned/layed off. They got here ahead of you and didn't understand the mentality of Wyoming. Wyoming is a ranch and farm community where the entire family works to make a living. Not just dad, or maybe mom with a part time job.

Whole families have made aliving for the whole family. Schools are set up on 4 day weeks so the kids can work the weekends.

I certainly understand your heart burn with the attitude out here. But take a look at generations of work ethics that are being changed.

What is Wyoming's industry? What do we contribute to the country? Auto's, tractors, huh??? We supply energy. We supply more energy that anyone in the US.

My Son drives a coal truck at a coal mine. His wife drives a sanitation truck. She also is a full time student at the local college. His shifts are 12 hours a day so he doesn't do a lot else. He does try and put in overtime on his days off. He's been busting his ass lately to pay some bills. So on his time off he's also putting in 12 hour shifts.

That's what Wyomingites do for a living. If your ready to blend in, hey, I want you for a neighbor. Ready to help me shovel snow down our driveway? You ready to give my kids a ride to school when my truck won't start? I'll certainly give yours a ride. How about both our wives working. Can they car pool? I don't care if they work a mile apart. It's 15 miles to town. If you go in the hospital or are called away for a family thing. I'll not only mow your grass, I'll water it, weed eat it and feed your dogs. Sorry, won't feed cats. hahaha

So, I'm sorry if we offended you with a few questions and comments. But it's a different world that you are looking at.

We want neighbors, not leaches. We want friends, not somebody that will tolerate the local crowd. This old western mantality is strong. If you ain't got a neighbor, you ain't got S***. Sorry, but that's the way it is. We kind of like the idea we know everyone in town. We kind of like to know what to expect. Shake a hand and own 90,000 acres. Want a contract, you'll be lucky to buy a poll barn.

Jobs here are as scarce as a lot of places because we've had an influx of people that soak up the jobs but not the culture. Now you understand.

[fawner55]

ElkHunter,

Thank you for the response. I do appreciate that Wyoming has a different mentality...there is nothing more irritating than the "I am owed" mentality that has enveloped not only Michigan but most of the country. I grew up in a smaller town where we knew our neighbors well, we helped each other in good and bad times, and that was a great part of my life. I want my kids to know that same life still exists. You sound like you have it out there...honestly, I am green with envy! I am waiting to hear on a job and if it goes through I want to be part of your kind of community.

fawner55

[jody_wy]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

jody_wy ... I'm kinda' baffled how the Star Valley area would meet the requirements of fawner55.

Where are all the shopping malls, the movie theaters, and the entertainment that those city kids are seeking?

No doubt about it, the Star Valley is some of the prettiest scenery in Wyoming. But it does come at a price .... which I believe could be in excess of what a part-time worker could support.

gee thought IShotBifoot started this tread.... sorry sunsprit...

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by fawner55

ElkHunter,

Thank you for the response. I do appreciate that Wyoming has a different mentality...there is nothing more irritating than the "I am owed" mentality that has enveloped not only Michigan but most of the country. I grew up in a smaller town where we knew our neighbors well, we helped each other in good and bad times, and that was a great part of my life. I want my kids to know that same life still exists. You sound like you have it out there...honestly, I am green with envy! I am waiting to hear on a job and if it goes through I want to be part of your kind of community.

fawner55

Well sir. I want you as a neighbor. I hope it goes through. My kids own a great school. They own it! My neighbors took care of me and I took care of them.
What do you do? hahahaha Now I ask?

Your kids will know a great life.

Its funny. When I got out of the Navy and come back home. I told the girls to head down town. Nothing was going to happen. They said, "Really? We can walk down town?" I said go for it. They did and had a wonderful time. I really shouldn't say that, I come back home. It was that way.

Welcome Home. EH

[sunsprit]

$18 an hour?

Cheyenne had thousands of applicants for the warehouse jobs at the Lowe's warehouse and the Sam's/WalMart distribution center at $12.00/hour[b].

Many of these local applicants were moving up from lower paying jobs in the area. With the low interest rates available, they actualy caused a minor building boom in low-end housing in Cheyenne as they could now afford to move out of rental housing into their own townhomes at monthly payments that were comparable to their rentals. Even the rental housing market had a bit of a surplus, and the market fell a little bit from the peak of three or four years ago.

Many of those $12/hr jobs came with very limited benefits, although I understand that they've improved that a bit in the past year. And there are some tech type jobs ... refrigeration mechanics, etc. ... that do pay more.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

$18 an hour?

Cheyenne had thousands of applicants for the warehouse jobs at the Lowe's warehouse and the Sam's/WalMart distribution center at $12.00/hour[b].

Many of these local applicants were moving up from lower paying jobs in the area. With the low interest rates available, they actualy caused a minor building boom in low-end housing in Cheyenne as they could now afford to move out of rental housing into their own townhomes at monthly payments that were comparable to their rentals. Even the rental housing market had a bit of a surplus, and the market fell a little bit from the peak of three or four years ago.

Many of those $12/hr jobs came with very limited benefits, although I understand that they've improved that a bit in the past year. And there are some tech type jobs ... refrigeration mechanics, etc. ... that do pay more.

$18 to 20 an hour was not uncommon in Sheridan. Not a lot of them, but they was here. With benefits.

[Happy in Wyoming]

Originally Posted by fawner55

Now...I am trying not to take some of the responses I received the wrong way. When did it become so bad to be from the city (or Michigan) and be looking for something different?? I do need a job to survive but I need more out of life than that. I am looking for a real "home" for my family where I don't worry about who my next door neighbor is and whether the park behind my house is a hang-out for the troublemakers at night. I am not from Detroit (it is an awful place), but Lansing is a dying town also with enough problems that I want to leave behind. For Happy in Wyoming...Michigan is a beautiful state...if all you ever saw is Detroit than you missed a lot of the good things that exist here...museums, bridges, lighthouses, fishing, hunting, lakes, wildlife, forests that seem to go on forever, beautiful little towns (so yeah I do love the state and I will always talk about the great things that are here).

I was raised in Michigan and my family has never been part of the union system and have always been willing to work sun-up to sun-down to get the job done. So, I may be from the state that unions have destroyed but they never did anything for me and I never wanted them to. I was raised by my parents to put forth an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and I think that my 60-hour weeks attest to the fact that the values have stuck. (BTW, I manage apartments for a living and I hate all the laws that benefit the tenant and not the landlord, might be nice to get away from those.)

Now, I am going to play momma bear to my "city kids". When you tell two teenagers that you might be moving them to the middle of nowhere, away from friends, and all they know, I think their questions were valid. They might be used to the ease of finding what they want in the city but they are good kids and this move will be the hardest on them. Besides, occassionally I like a little shopping or a movie too.

I thought this forum would give me more insight into making a tough decision to move 1300 miles west and I wasn't wrong. I have spent many years telling my kids to base their opinion of someone on the individual, nothing else. I see that not everyone thinks like that so I am not sure that I want my family to live in a place where we will be compared to the ones who came before us instead of on our own merits, seems kind of "provincial and narrow". Are there any out there that can tell why I should consider Wyoming a good place to live and raise my family?

So thank you to all for the good facts. Also, I figured the opinions needed some type of response so I tried to be nice about it but....

Let me try to answer your concerns in the order you mentioned them.

It's not bad to be from a city or from Michigan. But it's a very bad idea to move to a place, any place, where your lifestyle or values are incompatible with the local customs and culture.

You're much less likely to need to worry about who's living next door to you. Wyoming has a generally low crime rate and the fourth lowest violent crime rate of all the states. There aren't any troublemakers loitering in the park because people here will not tolerate it. I'm sure that the people living in a lot of smaller cities in Michigan don't either.

As far as my seeing different parts of Michigan, I can say that in five years I saw a good bit on both peninsulas. I actually visited the UP right after I got there because I had some free time and had heard a lot about it. It was an interesting place and some of it seemed quite remote. This visit was also the first thing that made me think I was somewhere different from anywhere I'd been before. I found that few people around a university had been there and they seemed to view it the way I'd view a trip from Michigan to Mexico City. I remember one man who couldn't believe that I'd just done it on a whim. He told me that it would take a lot of thought and planning. I'd guess his age at 45. He had never been there.

As far as unions go, I am aware that Michigan has a far higher percentage of unionized workers than does Wyoming. I am certainly no fan of unions, but had no contact with them in Michigan and have not had any dealings with them here, so I must defer to others. So many people who rent think landlords get rich wihout working and just like to be mean. But I don't need to convince you of anything there.

I believe that regarding your children you will find our values very different. Since I do not have children I invite comment.

Wyoming seems different from any state where I've spent any amount of time. Parents here seem to believe that it's important that their children respect them. I don't mean beating them into submission, either physically or verbally. I mean engendering real respect. Children (I must point out that I've only talked to teenagers working in stores) really seem to respect their parents. I don't pick up resentment on the part of kids or insecurity on the part of parents. Most people here would assume that your children would respect you enough that they would assume that your decision to move would be the correct one.

A previous poster, Sunsprit, talked about Cheyenne. Cheyenne is a huge city compared to Rawlins. A city the size of Rawlins in Wyoming is far more of a commercial center than one of the same size in Michigan would be for the simple reason that cities here are much farther apart and there are fewer of them. But Rawlins does not have a mall. I don't believe that it has a Wal-mart yet. If you go on a major shopping trip when you live in Rawlins you will do some driving. It's even a 40 mile trip from Cheyenne to a major shopping area. People here need to be self-sufficient.

But teenagers seem to find plenty to do here. There are a lot of empty roads here so there's a bit of street racing, but kids wouldn't be normal if they didn't rebel a bit. If a bunch of teenagers go shooting or 4-wheeling or just prowling around they might bring a case of beer. But they're not criminals, just teenagers. Yes, there is an underclass, but it seems relatively small and I hope it's never needs to be a concern for you, wherever you may live. Normal kids like horses and guns and cars. The order is up to an individual's taste. Girls generally like horses (or other equines) the best.

I do not know why Michigan people in general can't fit in. I say that not after dealing with one or two, but after ten or twelve. I know that's anecdotal, but the ones I've met just can't seem to make the break.

You stated, underlined, that you will always talk about the great things that are in Michigan. That seems to indicate that you don't really wish to leave. There are a lot of people from other states here, but they did wish to leave Illinois or Texas or Colorado or California or someplace else. Many, perhaps most, came here for financial reasons, just as people did in 1870. But they came here to become part of this society, not to yearn for the one they left. If you don't feel this way, you're wasting your time and money moving to Wyoming, because you'll soon be going back.

[Darrow]

To the OP: Check out the northern part of the state as well. The Big Horn Basin has a few smaller sized towns with populations you are looking for. Many of the teachers in the area have stayed their entire career and choose to retire there. I'm speaking primarily of Lovell and Rocky Mountain school districts. Housing costs are lower there. It's not a shopping/dining area, but Billings MT is 1 hour 10 min. drive.

[mtlogger]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

We supply energy. We supply more energy that anyone in the US. My Son drives a coal truck at a coal mine. His wife drives a sanitation truck. She also is a full time student at the local college. His shifts are 12 hours a day so he doesn't do a lot else. He does try and put in overtime on his days off. He's been busting his ass lately to pay some bills. So on his time off he's also putting in 12 hour shifts.

And, if you're not hauling coal, it's drilling for oil and natural gas in the Big Horn Basin or over in Pinedale. And, if that doesn't work for you, try driving a gypsum rock truck.

That's what Wyomingites do for a living. If your ready to blend in, hey, I want you for a neighbor. Ready to help me shovel snow down our driveway? You ready to give my kids a ride to school when my truck won't start? I'll certainly give yours a ride. How about both our wives working. Can they car pool? I don't care if they work a mile apart. It's 15 miles to town. If you go in the hospital or are called away for a family thing. I'll not only mow your grass, I'll water it, weed eat it and feed your dogs. Sorry, won't feed cats.

Every farmer I can remember in the Big Horn Basin had three jobs to support their families. Nothing much has changed in the last 25 years.

Jobs here are as scarce as a lot of places because we've had an influx of people that soak up the jobs but not the culture.

Wyoming population hovers around 490-495k not much more. It loses as many as it gains every decade. Oil boom and bust is cyclical.
Better bring a job with you.

If I was looking to move back (which I wouldn't), I'd be looking in Centennial (closed enuf to Laramie and Ft. Collins); Sheridan or Evanston.

[ElkHunter]

Originally Posted by mtlogger

And, if you're not hauling coal, it's drilling for oil and natural gas in the Big Horn Basin or over in Pinedale. And, if that doesn't work for you, try driving a gypsum rock truck.



Every farmer I can remember in the Big Horn Basin had three jobs to support their families. Nothing much has changed in the last 25 years.



Wyoming population hovers around 490-495k not much more. It loses as many as it gains every decade. Oil boom and bust is cyclical.
Better bring a job with you.

If I was looking to move back (which I wouldn't), I'd be looking in Centennial (closed enuf to Laramie and Ft. Collins); Sheridan or Evanston.

Just out of curiosity, Why don't you want to come back?