Hybrid cars in Jackson, Wyoming (garage door, gas, park)

[StealthRabbit]

not to mention any names... but the Escape has a hard time powering out of steep driveways. I have a friend that is a rural electrical inspector who has had a lot of trouble with his Escape, he made his boss get out and push to get it over an incline at a job site.

What about the Jeeps with diesels (Liberty?) , Unfortunately I think they only made them a couple yrs, but were ~35 - 40 mpg. These can be very green by not using dino diesel.

As mentioned I do like to keep it simple. My early VW diesels need one 12V wire to keep the fuel flowing, and a new $12 Timing Belt every 80k. My 20 mpg Cummins 1T truck has a manual fuel shut off; neither have computers. But, as mentioned, if you need a dealer to fix stuff, be diligent to see who services the areas you will drive.

[Brian_M]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

What about the Jeeps with diesels (Liberty?) , Unfortunately I think they only made them a couple yrs, but were ~35 - 40 mpg. These can be very green by not using dino diesel.

I'm afraid you're WAY over-estimating the Jeep. The BEST economy I can find from individual users (FuelEconomy.gov, individuals can input their own records) is 30mpg on 90~100% highway driving. Most are getting 20~25mpg. My Toyota T100 truck can get 25mpg on the highway.

Brian

[Froggie Legs]

What about Saturns? Mine has fairly low clearance and this is the first winter I will have had it.. so far it's been starting but then we haven't really gotten sub-zero weather and tons of snow yet.

I like the gas mileage I get with it (32 or better hwy) but I was nearly blown off the road during a windy day as it was so light... (compared to my old minivan, which had metal body, not plastic)..

I know that Wyoming gets pretty windy. Anyone on the board have a Saturn car in WY and care to comment?

[WyoNewk]

My wife drives a Saturn, but she won't drive on slick roads with any vehicle. It starts well. I think there have been a few sub-zero days when it sat out overnight and wouldn't start, but that's not because it's a Saturn. It's been a mostly trouble-free car.

[ElkHunter]

Got this old ford. It's not a hibred. It's just a ford. Hell, only got 315000 miles on it. It's like an old wife. When you really need it, it won't turn over. Oh crap, now I'm going to get it. hahaha

[NVDave]

Originally Posted by ElkHunter

Got this old ford. It's not a hibred. It's just a ford. Hell, only got 315000 miles on it. It's like an old wife. When you really need it, it won't turn over. Oh crap, now I'm going to get it. hahaha

Why, yes, you are. ;-)

[NVDave]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

What about the Jeeps with diesels (Liberty?) , Unfortunately I think they only made them a couple yrs, but were ~35 - 40 mpg. These can be very green by not using dino diesel.

We looked at the CRD Liberties briefly. I was very underwhelmed. I agree with you on the pitch for a diesel, but not as an off-road rig for most diesels. The Liberty's mileage was underwhelming, the overall power delivery was underwhelming, the whole concept was... underwhelming.

Another victim of coupling a diesel to the wrong transmission.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by NVDave

We looked at the CRD Liberties briefly. I was very underwhelmed. ...
Another victim of coupling a diesel to the wrong transmission.

I haven't driven one, but had friends who drove them in their 'green companies'. Did they have the Wrong ratio, or an automatic designed for gas RPM & torque curve?

Ugh, the USA builders have a bad habit of that, I figured they consulted their parent (DB at the time IIRC). Seems to come the other way when the Euro carmakers try to design / send automatics to USA, plenty of trouble on that end as well.

What is the most 'cold ready' Hybrid, and how are they different? (larger engine?) I assume using batteries and needing heat is a real deal killer for winter hybrids. Keeping windshield clear and feet warm would be challenging coming down the backside of a LONG mtn pass. Re-gen braking ought to be a real challenge on ice.

[NVDave]

I didn't investigate the CRD long enough to find out where the design problem was. It was just another case of "Diesel engine, wrong drivetrain." I've been in enough of these fiascos that I can get in, drive around the block and know whether the vehicle has the right drivetrain or not.

Every diesel advocate knows that they don't wind up like an angry bumblebee the way small gas engines are in little cars. A diesel that is running at anything more than about 3,000 RPM is a diesel that is not happy. Diesels also have a very narrow power band - so you need to not only have gearing adapted for lower engine RPM's, you need a transmission with many more gears than in a gasser. This is why trucks have between 9 to 20 speed transmission setups in them. European diesel autos are now up to 6 speeds and BMW is bringing out a diesel with an 8 speed automatic transmission. The Europeans are up to about 40% of their new car sales being diesels too -- with attending high mileage and very efficient engines.

Detroit, modulo their pickup divisions, has had their head up their plush posteriors about diesels forever. If we Americans want diesels, we have to a) get rid of these California environmentalists and their anti-diesel jihads, and b) sack every engineer in Detroit and bring in fresh blood. Other than that, all we can hope for are better designs to come in from elsewhere. Sadly, the Obama administration has handed new auto emission issues over to CARB (California Air Resources Board) and they're the most anti-diesel zealots out there, and they'll flog all manner of idiotic "zero emissions" nonsense that makes less than zero sense in places like Wyoming, because their agenda is to make the air crystal clear in the LA basin 365 days a year.

The most "cold ready" hybrid? I don't know. The battery issue applies to all chemical-based batteries - chemical reactions that store/produce the electrical energy simply slow down at low(er) temperatures. There's no way to get around this, just like there's no way to get around gravity. The only way a hybrid designer could get around this issue right now is to put a bigger battery in a hybrid, but they're already at physical size/weight limits on this issue.

Re-gen braking on ice shouldn't be a problem with the new vehicle stability and anti-skid sensors and computerized drivetrains - as soon as they see a wheel "stop" - they can let up on the regen braking. The need for heat could be an issue if they don't have a way other than using engine heat in the coolant to heat the cabin. If you need heat and there's no other way other than using hot coolant water to bring the heat into the cabin, that means you're running the engine even when you don't need to.

[wannahome2]

Thanks for all the advise about cars in Jackson. It sounds like a hybrid would not be practical as a year round vehicle there. I figured that would be the case.