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Old 12-01-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: In a city
1,393 posts, read 3,166,265 times
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While I'm not well versed on all of the particulars, it would seem that a hacker broke into a global warming study place in the UK and found that the scientists were exaggerating the global warming data. Climate-gate.

Can this mean that cap and trade will likely be put on hold, hopefully, since the whole premise of carbon offset appeared to be "stop global warming?"

My question is, does anyone work for fossil fuel companies in Wyoming and if so, do you think there might be a boom again for those industries? Or is it too soon to tell?
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:11 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 4,230,451 times
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The evidence that those studies were fraudulent will have no effect on anything. Whether cap and trade will pass will not change. If San Diego were to get 6 feet of snow and zero temps in the summertime the global warming crowd would say that global warming caused it.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,724 posts, read 21,169,926 times
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Environmentalists exaggerating the facts? Who'da thunk it.


It's waaay too early to know if this will have any impact on anything. My guess is that it won't matter. Like Benny says, global warming alarmists aren't going to let facts get in the way of the movement.
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 41,936,036 times
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I believe that we will never see the return of boom and bust in the energy industry like we have been used to in the past. Wyoming will do nothing but continue to close down resources and alternatives come available.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:32 PM
 
47 posts, read 111,524 times
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Default Energy

While the climate gate scandal might not change the warm monger's minds, I think it will make it much harder for the Senat to pass hard-to-swallow limitations on CO2 emissions that are binding. The energy market is low now mostly because the whole economy is down, energy consumption is down. Butwhen the economy in general rebounds energy demands will also rise. The sources of some of this energy will be alternative but there is no way that alternative energy will be enough to offset the increase in the energy demand, let alone bite into the demand for coal.

What more Wyoming coal is considered 'clean' since it has lower sulfur levels, the coal that will be dropped first would be from places like West Virginia, PA, Alabama, IL.

There is about as much coal in MT as there is in Wyoming but MT at the moment is a lot harder to mine in.

Talk of going nuclier might bring back talk about uranium, but realisticly there is a lot of cheaper uranium in the world than what we can get in Wyoming.

Other alternative energy sources in Wyming is wind, but wind doesnt exactly bring in many jobs and presently is also not a source of taxes to the state.

Hope this sheds some light on the situation.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:19 AM
 
11,550 posts, read 53,004,833 times
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Interesting to see that more and more of the "scientific community" as well as the academic community is starting to publish their realization that the core group (of about 50) of the IPCC "scientists" are at the heart of a true scandal.

It's become very clear that they "cooked the books" on their data, deleting all of the original data and only releasing their "modified" data to support their position. The clear intent was to prevent anybody else from replicating their results so that they wouldn't be contested. As this is fundamental to scientific research ... the ability to take the basic data and replicate the results independently ... it amounts to nothing less than scientific fraud of a massive scale.

IMO, that fraud was intended to capture the grant and jobs "gravy train" of income. But in any other research and grants program, such fraud is grounds for dismissal of the results as well as censure and jobs lost by the parties involved. And so it should be here, too. All of these folks who were on the proven inside track to hide or obfuscate data, as well as block the "peer reviewed" studies and journals of others to protect their position should be fired. The institutions which accepted grant monies for their "research" should be required to pay back every penny of the grants for "research" predicated upon known to the researchers falsehoods.

Further, IMO, every law/regulation that has been promulgated or passed in response to that false "research" should be suspended immediately. If those laws are of valid public impact, then they can be passed again on their merits, not the basis of the false research.

Where I'm going with this is that the climate fear mongers are now left without a basis to deny the use of "clean coal" and other valuable readily available energy sources. Here in Wyoming, for example, several energy companies spent millions of dollars to get power plant permits ... and is some cases, they were approved. But with the unknown impact of potential "climate change" energy legislation, the companies had abandoned their projects. Those companies, as well as Wyoming jobs markets, have sustained real damages due to a fabrication of false research. IMO, all of those key players at the core of the scam need to be held personally liable for their fraud via the court system. If it means that they live penniless and suffer loss of their assets, so be it. They've cost society ... you and me, personally ... a lot of money over the years.

I hope the outcome of all this is that energy development in Wyoming can continue into the future without interruption of the local economy, and to the benefit of the region, too.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:56 PM
 
Location: in the ground
375 posts, read 1,378,079 times
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Cap N Trade isn't going to pass, so forget about it. My argument all along with the enviro wackos has been and remains - when Pinatubo erupted years ago and Redoubt Volcano (this year) pukes 100 m/tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every hour, how is the USA the largest emissions polluter? They can't answer the question. If there really is a hole in ozone in the Southern Cross, why isn't everyone down there dead from cancer? They can't answer the question. You know why - because it doesn't exist.

The business about Antarctic ice shelves disappearing is garbage. They always break-off and dissolve in the Southern Cross every Summer. Their Summer is our Winter.

The "hoax" fell apart last month when Warren Buffett bought the remaining shares of Burlington Northern. He was asked what he thought about global warming and CNT - he said he didn't think it was real and it would not pass. Every hour (help me ElkHunter) of the day/night a 100 car train of coal leaves for the East and Midwest powerplants.

On the other hand, I'm stocking up on coal for my old stove I brought in from Indiana last week. I expect an ice age before a warming. It may not happen in 2012 or 2512, but it will happen.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,700 posts, read 41,936,036 times
Reputation: 2147483647
There was 12-14 trains a day coming out of Decker and Spring Creek. These trains are 128 cars that hold 100 Ton each. Most are headed for Pennsylvania and points back east.

That's just 2 mines close to Sheridan. Wonder what the 8 or 10 mines between Gillette and Wright load out each day?

Notice, I said, WAS in the first sentence. They have slowed to 7 or 8 trains a day. But, that's normal for this time of year because they've been stock piling back east, all summer. So until it gets burned down, they don't have room.
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Old 12-05-2009, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,724 posts, read 21,169,926 times
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I think you're right about the average train car hauling 100 tons, EH, and I think the average coal train is 110 cars, unless it's gone up recently. (They're limited by length for crossings, etc.) If those figures are close, that puts the average coal train at 11,000 tons.

In 2007, Wyoming produced 452 million tons. If it all shipped by train, that would be 40,909 trains, but some is used at the mine, such as at Wyodak. Let's use 40,000 train loads per year, which would amount to about 110 trains per day or 4.5 per hour. You'd be safe calling it four per hour.

That's using 2007 figures. Shipments were up last year but are back down this year, probably about where they were in 2007.

Here are some Wyoming coal facts from 2007. (http://www.wma-minelife.com/coal/CONG2008/ConciseGuide2008.pdf - broken link) 2008's Concise Guide should be published by now, but I haven't seen it.
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Old 12-06-2009, 12:27 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,640 posts, read 57,683,287 times
Reputation: 46084
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaduchman View Post
Cap N Trade isn't going to pass, so forget about it. ...
but it will happen.
I wish you were right, and I agree there is a lot of false info being set as fact, However...We, (you, I, and WY) are gonna get Obamacized (systematically stripped of our assets). There will be a form of Cap and Trade, and the US economy WILL suffer, as it is part of the master plan. Eventually (if not already) we will be the JOKE of the world and become their servants.
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