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Old 04-10-2010, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Natrona County
116 posts, read 448,783 times
Reputation: 107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by molon labe View Post
The truth of the matter is that if half of the states stood up to the feds and cut off their money supply the central government would be forced to it's knees and forced to comply with the federalist concept.
One can only hope.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Shelton, Ct
157 posts, read 328,775 times
Reputation: 92
The heart of the matter is does the constitution allow the federal government to own land or natural resources within the borders of a state? Remember the 10th ammendment says if the constitution does not specificly say they can own the land then that power and authority is retained by the state.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,560,595 times
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It seems reasonable to say that the national government (it's not federal by any stretch of the imagination) can at best own real estate or other property within a state with the same rights and responsibilities that a private citizen can. That's the reason a special federal district was set up. We often hear that they did that only to be free of urban mobs: but if that were the only reason. there would be no reason to set up a special federal district outside the jurisdiction of any state.
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Old 04-10-2010, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,952,327 times
Reputation: 9478
All of the land in Wyoming that was given to the state or into private hands was given by the Federal Government. Contesting the Federal Governments right to own land would seem to invalidate all State and Private ownership as well. If the Fed's had no title to the land, then those who recieved title from the Fed's also have an invalid title.

From the History of Wyoming, Chapter 6:

Quote:
Additionally, the federal government granted lands to each territory as it was admitted to statehood. Wyoming received from the federal government some 50 sections of federal land for building various public structures such as a state capitol and state prison. Further, the federal government gave Wyoming sections 16 and 36 in every township in the state. Revenues from that land was dedicated to the maintenance of public schools. These so-called "school sections" or "state trust lands" continue to be administered by the State of Wyoming for the benefit of public education in the state. Drafters of the State Constitution made sure that the lands would not be given away or sold for less than their value. (See Wyoming Constitution, Article 7, Sec. 3). These lands, totaling some 2.1 million acres, make up the bulk of state lands in Wyoming to this day. In exchange for statehood and accepting these land grants from the federal government, the state of Wyoming agreed to "forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within its borders." (See Wyoming Constitution, Article 20, Sec. 21).
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Old 04-10-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,952,327 times
Reputation: 9478
A few more interesting parts of the Wyoming State Constitution, that seem relevant to the discussion of states rights.

Wyoming Constitution :

Quote:
97-1-028. Taxation; consent of people; uniformity and equality.

No tax shall be imposed without the consent of the people or their authorized representatives.
Since Wyoming has authorized representatives active in every part of the Federal Government it would appear they have given their consent by participating in those processes.

Quote:
97-1-037. Constitution of United States supreme law of land.
The State of Wyoming is an inseparable part of the federal union, and the constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land.
Quote:
molon lab wrote: Tally up all the excise/severance taxes/land/minerals/etc the feds steal from us and come back to the discussion.
The Constitution of the State of Wyoming says that the State may NOT tax the United States. So how do you figure?

Quote:
97-15-012. Exemptions from taxation.
The property of the United States, the state, counties, cities, towns, school districts and municipal corporations, when used primarily for a governmental purpose, and public libraries, lots with the buildings thereon used exclusively for religious worship, church parsonages, church schools and public cemeteries, shall be exempt from taxation, and such other property as the legislature may by general law provide.
Quote:
97-21-024. State part of United States.

The State of Wyoming is an inseparable part of the federal union and the constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land.

Quote:
97-21-026. Ownership of certain lands disclaimed; restriction on taxation of nonresidents.

The people inhabiting this state do agree and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries thereof, and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes, and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States and that said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the congress of the United States; that the lands belonging to the citizens of the United States residing without this state shall never be taxed at a higher rate than the lands belonging to residents of this state; that no taxes shall be imposed by this state on lands or property therein, belonging to, or which may hereafter be purchased by the United States, or reserved for its use. But nothing in this article shall preclude this state from taxing as other lands are taxed, any lands owned or held by any Indian who has severed his tribal relations, and has obtained from the United States or from any person, a title thereto, by patent or other grant, save and except such lands as have been or may be granted to any Indian or Indians under any acts of congress containing a provision exempting the lands thus granted from taxation, which last mentioned lands shall be exempt from taxation so long, and to such an extent, as is, or may be provided in the act of congress granting the same.

Last edited by CptnRn; 04-10-2010 at 05:15 PM..
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Old 04-10-2010, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,560,595 times
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Once the people of Wyoming Have dissolved the compact with the Washington government, those pretty words will have the same relevance as the words in the US Constitution that deal with the importation and census of slaves.

John Locke, not Thomas Hobbes, inspired the American Revolution. The Hobbesians gained ascendancy during the War of Southern Independence. Now it's time to restore the real America.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,952,327 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Once the people of Wyoming Have dissolved the compact with the Washington government, those pretty words will have the same relevance as the words in the US Constitution that deal with the importation and census of slaves.
That is about the same as saying "when pigs have wings". It will never happen.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
10,420 posts, read 14,560,595 times
Reputation: 22017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Once the people of Wyoming Have dissolved the compact with the Washington government, those pretty words will have the same relevance as the words in the US Constitution that deal with the importation and census of slaves.

John Locke, not Thomas Hobbes, inspired the American Revolution. The Hobbesians gained ascendancy during the War of Southern Independence. Now it's time to restore the real America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
That is about the same as saying "when pigs have wings". It will never happen.

They've certainly flown a lot in the past: Rome, Britain, and many more.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:46 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 4,234,000 times
Reputation: 1152
The more strongly that people think it will not happen raises the likelihood of it happening.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Shelton, Ct
157 posts, read 328,775 times
Reputation: 92
Personaly I think the chances are better for the United States to simply dissolve, similar to the way the Soviet Union did in the late 80's. When the Federal Govt goes bankrupt they will have no money to function as government. There will be no more grant money to give to the states (and exert their power over them) for public works projects, law enforcement, the enviornment, education, etc. They will have no money to fund any of the dozen or so enforcement agency's. Then the states will have to survive on their own.They will ignore federal mandates, laws, regulations and anything else that comes from the federal govt.

Then what will the federal govt do? Will they declare an insurrection and use federal troops to bring the states back into line? Will the military obey the civilian authority? Will they sell off federal lands and natural resources to foriegn entity's for money to function? Will the states sieze their own land/resources with their own state run militia's (not the guys running around the mountains in camo with pork and beans)? Will it dissolve peacefully like the Soviet Union or will we have a civil war? That is the uncertain part.
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