help from wyoming people regarding flights. (Cheyenne, Laramie: rental, insurance, how much)

[swdominick]

does anyone have any information on small plane flights from Cody Wyoming to Cheyenne Wyoming, cheap, on a weekly basis? Husband has military job two days a week in cheyenne, we live in cody.....6 hour drive one way....any thoughts
[EMAIL="dominickacheryl@yahoo.com"]dominickacheryl@yahoo.com[/EMAIL]

[georgiainwyo]

Originally Posted by swdominick

does anyone have any information on small plane flights from Cody Wyoming to Cheyenne Wyoming, cheap, on a weekly basis? Husband has military job two days a week in cheyenne, we live in cody.....6 hour drive one way....any thoughts
dominickacheryl@yahoo.com

As far as I know there are no direct flights from Cody to Cheyenne or even to Laramie. He would have to fly to Denver, then to Cheyenne from there, or he could fly to Denver & rent a car. It is really expensive to fly Cody to Cheyenne, over $500. Might be better to even drive to Billings and fly from there.

[Happy in Wyoming]

The Cody airport is primarily involved with general aviation. It may be worthwhile to wander over and ask around if anyone flies his own plane to Cheyenne on a regular basis. You could possibly work something out. You could ask about it at the Cheyenne airport as well.

[sunsprit]

As noted, Yellowstone Regional Airport is primarily a GA airport, and has little scheduled commercial flight activity. I recall Delta doing a Cody to SLC route, so that would involve at least 2 flights (or more) to get to Cheyenne.

The Cody-Cheyenne airport direct air mileage is 274 nm, although I rarely fly it so efficiently due to flying at lower elevations and following terrain in my single engine (230HP) airplane. It typically takes me 2 hours enroute, depending upon weather conditions and winds aloft. For small GA aircraft, this is not a commute that you can assume will be feasible much of the year, due to seasonal storms that prevail in the region creating low IFR conditions along portions of the route. Sometimes, there is a front that can settle in along the continental divide area or just East of it, northward from Laramie, that simply makes this not advisable for small GA aircraft due to cold temps/moisture/mountain obscuration creating icing conditions. I've had more than one trip Northward or Westward from the Cheyenne area stopped at Laramie, or postponed due to reported conditions and delayed my planned flight for a day or two.

Even with my own instrument flight conditions rated aircraft at my disposal and an instrument rating license in my pocket, I wouldn't try doing this route as a "commute" on a weekly basis unless I had the flexibility of arrival and departure time windows. In some weeks, it would be prudent to take the departure from Cody a day or two early with a better weather outlook for the flight to arrive in Cheyenne safely; conversely, the return trip may often be better delayed by some amount of hours or days.

Please keep in mind that very few GA pilots in small singles have the appropriate ratings, aircraft insurance, or aircraft maintenance in accordance with commercial requirements, and cannot fly for compensation or hire out flight time of their aircraft. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it's a far more complex level of requirements and significantly more expensive to enter that area of aviation. Not only does the Fed have their hand in this, but the insurance companies ... as well as the state of Wyoming; there's a big difference in being tax exempt as a private use aircraft (which exemption I must apply for each year) as opposed to the Wyoming property taxes imposed each year if the aircraft is used for any commercial activity.

Consider, too, that I have no desire to put my assets at risk for the benefit of a commuter ... as a likely result of the proverbial possible accident. Survivors generally sue the pilot and aircraft owner for substantial money after any incident, and if there's a fatality or loss of earnings ... the amounts are devastating to the private pilot. That I willingly choose to take those risks for myself is one thing, but to have those burdens as consequences for others is not a risk I'd care to subject my family to for someone else's benefit. Nor do I care to be responsible for the consequences of a flight that cannot be completed in a timely manner when it comes to someone else needing to report for duty.

What you are proposing, a routine commute via private GA aircraft, is a far different scenario than a couple of friends enjoying a mutual interest in travel via small aircraft. At the most, a GA pilot can split the actual cost of fuel and no other expenses related to a given flight without running afoul of the commercial aspects of the situation. And yes, I've had a number of friends who routinely travel the region to destinations that I wouldn't otherwise be headed to on their schedule ask if I'd fly them and how much it would cost to do so (Cheyenne-Jackson-Cheyenne, once a month, for example) ... the answer is that I am not licensed or insured or operate my aircraft in accordance with commercial requirements and cannot do so. Happy to have you along as my guest from time to time and appreciate your help with a share of the fuel expense when we fly for fun, but I'm not going to fly you commercial.

Has your husband considered getting his own pilot's license and either renting or owning his own aircraft? A private pilot ticket these days would run about $5,000, and there's capable rental aircraft that could be had in the low $100/hour range. With a two-hour +/- flight, that's $200 +/- per leg on his own schedule, weather and conditions permitting. That's actually less expensive per flight hour than my annualized total hourly costs on a hangared, insured, maintained 230 HP single ... but nobody flies it but me and my wife (a pilot, too). Put this in perspective of two scenarios: (1) reliable commercial aviation with effective all-weather flying capability is available, although costly for the convenience it represents ... or (2) maybe the weekly schedule drive isn't so bad, after all ....

"time to spare, go by air" is pretty true about personal GA flying until you get into turbine powered aircraft with significantly enhanced capabilities and weather abilities ... at far more expense per flight hour than smaller GA aircraft. FWIW, a 230 HP aircraft is considered "high performance" in the fleet, and the greater portion of the GA fleet is powered with mid 100 HP motors, such as 160 HP Cessna 172's.

A final thought: there's no such thing as "cheap" in aviation.

[Cloudfish]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

A final thought: there's no such thing as "cheap" in aviation.

I'm sure sunsprit's heard this one: The way to turn a large fortune into a small fortune is to buy an airplane....

[WyoNewk]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

... Has your husband considered getting his own pilot's license and either renting or owning his own aircraft? A private pilot ticket these days would run about $5,000, and there's capable rental aircraft that could be had in the low $100/hour range. With a two-hour +/- flight, that's $200 +/- per leg on his own schedule, weather and conditions permitting. That's actually less expensive per flight hour than my annualized total hourly costs on a hangared, insured, maintained 230 HP single ... but nobody flies it but me and my wife (a pilot, too). Put this in perspective of two scenarios: (1) reliable commercial aviation with effective all-weather flying capability is available, although costly for the convenience it represents ... or (2) maybe the weekly schedule drive isn't so bad, after all ....

"time to spare, go by air" is pretty true about personal GA flying until you get into turbine powered aircraft with significantly enhanced capabilities and weather abilities ... at far more expense per flight hour than smaller GA aircraft. FWIW, a 230 HP aircraft is considered "high performance" in the fleet, and the greater portion of the GA fleet is powered with mid 100 HP motors, such as 160 HP Cessna 172's.

A final thought: there's no such thing as "cheap" in aviation.

Keep in mind too, that the $5,000 private pilot license is only good for flying under VFR (visual flight rules), and it would often be impossible to fly that route under VFR. An instrument rating would be substantially more costly and time consuming, and a plane capable of and certified for instrument flight would cost more than $100 per hour. Furthermore, the $100/hour planes wouldn't make the flight in two hours, particularly the flight back to Cody against strong upper level winds. I flew a Cessna 172 for a few years, and there were windy days when I watched as cars below passed me!

I too owned a high performance single engine aircraft for several years when I had business interests around Wyoming and Montana. I'm a licensed instrument pilot, and my plane was certified for instrument flight, but there were times I had to charter a plane to get to a meeting because mine wasn't certified for icing conditions. Those charters got quite expensive, and unless your husband's job pays extremely well, it's not likely that his income would pay the charter fee.

[plainsman48]

I don't suppose the air charter operator is still there

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by plainsman48

I don't suppose the air charter operator is still there

Choice Aviation is the major FBO at Cody, and they do offer charter service.

But the OP needs a round trip KCOD-KCYS-KCOD with a couple of days in Cheyenne ... which means two round trips for Choice to fly. $$$$