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Old 10-22-2008, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,764,020 times
Reputation: 3920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Let me put this in a nutshell. The economy in MI blows! Our governor also blows! You can't just tax business to death then do a study to find out why the economy sucks. After years of debate, She just recently repealed the "single business tax" with a gun to her head because she thinks the tax shell game doesn't cause investment dollars to go elsewhere. Now Obama is taking his ques from our state government because......why? We have the worst economy in the country by far! I met an attorney who had literally moved here from Minnesota just to do bankruptcies. What does he expect to learn from us. What we're doin' ain't workin'. Look elsewhere

The onion thing is just a spoof on business closings. It's very topical in MI.
The 21st Century Jobs Fund is to help start up companies and companies looking to expand in new technologies. Guess what, those things take time. It's a long term investment, and was not meant to be a quick fix to replace thousands of manufacturing jobs.

If you want to compare and contrast Granholm with Obama on other issues, sure. But this fund is one of the best state incentives for startups and venture capitalists in the country. It's not meant to lure big business relocation to Michigan.
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Old 10-22-2008, 02:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,818,339 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
The 21st Century Jobs Fund is to help start up companies and companies looking to expand in new technologies. Guess what, those things take time. It's a long term investment, and was not meant to be a quick fix to replace thousands of manufacturing jobs.

If you want to compare and contrast Granholm with Obama on other issues, sure. But this fund is one of the best state incentives for startups and venture capitalists in the country. It's not meant to lure big business relocation to Michigan.
Yeah take a look back over that plan and what it intends to do in incentive future job growth. Are you saying that Michigan, and the US, should give up because it's cheaper to work in Mexico?

Personally I would like to see Michigan be the place that makes the trillion $/year alternative energy market run.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:26 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,602 posts, read 26,213,541 times
Reputation: 12628
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJoey View Post
Yeah take a look back over that plan and what it intends to do in incentive future job growth. Are you saying that Michigan, and the US, should give up because it's cheaper to work in Mexico?

Personally I would like to see Michigan be the place that makes the trillion $/year alternative energy market run.

To reshape our economy the 21st Century Jobs Fund will spark new investment, creating high-tech companies and jobs which will diversify our economy.



The 21st Century Jobs Fund will be used to jump start our economy now and diversify and grow the state's economy in the future by focusing resources in three areas:
  • Encourage the Development and Commercialization of Competitive-Edge Technologies
  • Increase Capital Investment Activity
  • Increase Commercial Lending Activity
21st Century Jobs Fund Promotional Tour Landing Page


It has done nothing except give political cover to a failing governor and legislature.
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Old 10-23-2008, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,602 posts, read 26,213,541 times
Reputation: 12628
Quote:
Originally Posted by pirate girl View Post
Knowing the base of the jobs in Michigan, how about the fact that Obama is going to stop giving initiatives and instead penalize companies that choose to move jobs out of America?

How about his plans to focus on alternative fuels? We all know that one of the Detroit automakers has developed an engine that can get 80+ MPG and we also know that the Bush administration has prevented that automaker from offering that engine to the American consumer.

Detroit needs to be allowed and supported by the federal government to take the lead on alternative fuel and energy sources- primarily because of the auto manufacturing there.

McCain/Palin support drill baby drill. That is not the answer. It will take a minimum of ten years before our drilling would have any kind of effect on our gas prices- and the volume of fuel we need here cannot be touched by our own drilling. We will remain dependent on fuel from other countries.

Rather than spend that money and time on drilling, why not invest it in alternative fuel sources- not just for energy but for transportation. In ten years I would love to see fuel cell/hybrid vehicles be the norm rather than the exception. That is the only way we will ever find ourselves independent of Middle Eastern oil. We need to not be the world's largest consumer.
Here's an incentive. Lower the Corporate tax rate. Is the rest of the industrialized world wrong? This is common sense.

Corn based fuels have driven the price of food up. Inconvenient for us but starving people in the third world who depend on our food exports.

"We all know that one of the Detroit automakers has developed an engine that can get 80+ MPG and we also know that the Bush administration has prevented that automaker from offering that engine to the American consumer."

Link?

As for the rest OK, let's do it. But it will take more than this fund to make it happen. And if the cost of doing business here is too high, it just won't matter anyway.
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,602 posts, read 26,213,541 times
Reputation: 12628
Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post
I see news like this all the time here in Michigan. The manufacturing industry (auto/parts) is suffering, but their decline was perdicted years ago when NAFTA got passed, and every company took advantage of it (it was supposed to make it easier to TRADE with Mexico, not have American Companies BUILD thier products there and ship them back here).


Governor Announces Over 7,000 New Jobs Created, 14,585 Jobs Retained
Companies investing more than $1 billion to grow in state

The Michigan Economic Development Corporation: Governor Announces Over 7,000 New Jobs Created, 14,585 Jobs Retained

Emerging Sector Companies Pump $47 Million of New Investment into Michigan's Oakland County Economy in July

Press Release (http://www.oakgov.com/about/news/pr_08_35.html - broken link)


21st Century Jobs Fund adds jobs

21st Century Jobs Fund makes $21 million in local grants - Crain's Detroit Business

"(MEGA) board today approved a state tax credit valued at $5.4 million over 10 years to help convince the company to expand in Michigan over a competing site in Kentucky."

"MEDC is working closely with the company as it weighs Michigan against competing locations in North America"

"MEDC’s recommendation, the MEGA board today approved a state tax credit valued at $5.4 million over seven years to win the company’s expansion."



I didn't see anything that indicated a single new job was actually created in the real world. I see a lot of talk about jobs but where are they? They exist in the mind of Granholm and no where else. These companies are whip sawing us and in the end may simply choose to do business in China. If the problem were resolved by this fund's grants in any way, the MI unemployment rate would not be blazing past the rest of the nations. It's a band aid on lacerated artery and political cover. Looks good, sounds good but does nothing.

Last edited by momonkey; 10-23-2008 at 06:14 AM..
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Old 10-23-2008, 06:45 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 63,828,510 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Can you bump the McCain is on the move thread back up so we can update it . You had some great thoughts and I thought the readers should be able to compare and contrast.
Obama takes 10-point lead on McCain | U.S. | Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democrat Barack Obama has expanded his national lead over Republican John McCain in the presidential race to 10 points, according to a Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 - General Election: McCain vs. Obama

RCP Average 10/14 - 10/21 -- -- 50.4 43.0 Obama +7.4
I'm not sre what the point of your posting was, that people in Michigan like socialism in droves, even though the facts show it doesnt work?
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Old 10-23-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,764,020 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
"(MEGA) board today approved a state tax credit valued at $5.4 million over 10 years to help convince the company to expand in Michigan over a competing site in Kentucky."

"MEDC is working closely with the company as it weighs Michigan against competing locations in North America"

"MEDC’s recommendation, the MEGA board today approved a state tax credit valued at $5.4 million over seven years to win the company’s expansion."



I didn't see anything that indicated a single new job was actually created in the real world. I see a lot of talk about jobs but where are they? They exist in the mind of Granholm and no where else. These companies are whip sawing us and in the end may simply choose to do business in China. If the problem were resolved by this fund's grants in any way, the MI unemployment rate would not be blazing past the rest of the nations. It's a band aid on lacerated artery and political cover. Looks good, sounds good but does nothing.
How many GM, Ford and Chrysler jobs have left Michigan and gone to China? How many have gone to Southern states?

How many Delphi jobs have done the same? How about American Axle? Tower Automotive? Federal Mogul? Visteon? Magna? Lear?

The answer is none of them. Those jobs just were eliminated. Gone. It had nothing to do with the tax structure in Michigan.
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Old 10-23-2008, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,602 posts, read 26,213,541 times
Reputation: 12628
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
How many GM, Ford and Chrysler jobs have left Michigan and gone to China? How many have gone to Southern states?

How many Delphi jobs have done the same? How about American Axle? Tower Automotive? Federal Mogul? Visteon? Magna? Lear?

The answer is none of them. Those jobs just were eliminated. Gone. It had nothing to do with the tax structure in Michigan.
Correct!

And this program has failed to replace the jobs that have disappeared. It is a model for failure. Why use it?
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Old 10-25-2008, 07:03 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,311 posts, read 2,818,339 times
Reputation: 893
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
To reshape our economy the 21st Century Jobs Fund will spark new investment, creating high-tech companies and jobs which will diversify our economy.



The 21st Century Jobs Fund will be used to jump start our economy now and diversify and grow the state's economy in the future by focusing resources in three areas:
  • Encourage the Development and Commercialization of Competitive-Edge Technologies
  • Increase Capital Investment Activity
  • Increase Commercial Lending Activity
21st Century Jobs Fund Promotional Tour Landing Page


It has done nothing except give political cover to a failing governor and legislature.
It's obvious that you don't understand the time lag involved with the generation of new industries based on forthcoming technologies. Things do not happen overnight when you are trying to re-invent the work force of a state that failed to capitalize on technological opportunities in its major market. Detroits auto market could still be thriving if it would have adopted automation processes and worked towards the same fuel economies that the foreign companies had the foresight to anticipate.

The money that your gov is putting up to fund the next generation technologies cannot be diminished before the average time from investment to product occurs. The ROI in biotech is low, but if one of the companies that is funded under this proposal finds a cure for cancer, or an alternative fuel the payout will be greater then the current GDP of the entire country. Getting that cure through the FDA and into people, or past the EPA and into "gas" stations isn't as trivial as you think it is.
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