[wanderer34]

Ay yi yi! Another long post! Well, here goes:

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

The Braves obviously may be well known in the City of Atlanta proper, but the team left many CoA residents with hurt feelings in 2013 when they announced that they were leaving Turner Field for a new stadium in suburban Cobb County (a historically predominantly white and deeply conservative suburban jurisdiction that historically has often had a noticeably adversarial relationship with the historically Black and progressive-dominated City of Atlanta proper and Fulton County) to be closer to a fanbase of predominantly deeply conservative affluent suburbanites and exurbanites who don’t like driving into the City of Atlanta to attend Braves’ home games in a decidedly urban environment at Turner Field.

And though the team appeared to be in a big hurry to rush through the City of Atlanta portion of their victory parade so that they could quickly get back to the suburban portion of their victory parade outside of their young home stadium at the adjoining Battery development in Cobb County, the Braves’ 2021 World Series victory seemed to help to somewhat assuage some of the hurt and anger over their move out of the City of Atlanta proper to Cobb County… But after openly announcing and playing up the fact that the team was moving out of the city to be closer to their much larger base of fans in the northern suburbs and exurbs, the Braves likely will never again quite have the fan following that they may have in the past in the City of Atlanta proper.

Many City of Atlanta proper sports fans that were hurt and angered by the Braves’ decision to move out of the city to be closer to (and seemingly appeal almost exclusively to) an urban-averse suburban and exurban fanbase in Cobb County seemed to have moved on by becoming strong supporters of the Atlanta United MLS soccer club, while the Atlanta Braves (minus their early postseason flame outs many years) appear to be enjoying much financial and attendance success while appealing heavily to their predominantly suburban and exurban fanbase in their new suburban digs.

Admittedly, I was hoping the Rays win their first WS Championship, especially considering that back then, the Bucs won a Super Bowl last season, and the Lightning was going along their championship streak, as well as I'm a Phillies fan and can't stand the Braves at all, but other than that, the only saving grace for the Braves is that although they don't play close to downtown anymore, the stadium and the development is much closer to the Atlanta city limits than the Atlanta NHL proposal.

The trend is to move back into the city for many sports franchise, and especially, to build a downtown sports venue. Certain cities like Chicago and Philadelphia, don't have the space to shoehorn such a sports venue so they either have to create a sports complex in the case of Philadelphia, or it involves tradition with the Cubs playing in the North Side, the Sox playing in the South Side, and the Blackhawks and Bulls playing in the West Side.

Once again, the Braves play close enough to the city limits, which may be the Braves saving grace if MARTA can extend a line to Cumberland. No such transit line exists to Alpharetta, and I doubt that GA state gov't will either extend MARTA to Alpharetta not create any such mass transit line from Downtown Atlanta.

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

With a reported estimated 2021 metropolitan GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of about $474 billion in the Atlanta metropolitan area (11th largest metro GDP in the U.S.) and with a reported estimated 2021 metropolitan GDP of about $154 billion in the Kansas City metropolitan area (33rd largest metro GDP in the U.S.), there’s probably not much of a chance that an NHL team (either through expansion or relocation) would go to Kansas City (29th largest CSA/Combined Statistical Area in U.S.) before it went to Atlanta (10th largest CSA in U.S.).

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

With a larger metropolitan GDP, a larger MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) population and a larger CSA population than Atlanta, I agree that Houston seems like an obvious target for either NHL expansion or relocation.

Though, it does not appear to be clear that Houston currently has an organized group of investors that are currently in position to attract an NHL team to the area either through expansion or relocation.

Atlanta appears to currently have two visibly organized investment groups that appear to be working to attract an NHL team back to the Atlanta market at the North Point Mall Alpharetta and Gathering at South Forsyth sites, with the Gathering at South Forsyth investor group currently appearing to have a noticeable lead in potentially attracting an NHL team back to the Atlanta market.

Houston also does not currently appear to have quite as large of a youth and amateur hockey scene as Atlanta has in and through its Northern Crescent suburbs. Houston also does not seem to have quite as large of a community of Northern transplants as Atlanta seems to have with its much closer geographical location to hockey-loving parts of the country like the Northeast and the Upper Midwest/Great Lakes regions of the U.S.

The fact that Atlanta has two visibly organized investment groups with proposals for hockey-specific arenas immediately surrounded by large revenue-generating mixed-use entertainment complexes and that both Houston and K.C. don’t appear to be organized at this time appears to give Atlanta at least a noticeable public relations advantage (if not a noticeable financial advantage) over competing markets like Houston and K.C. at this particular time.

That obviously could change, but it certainly seems to help Atlanta’s case that a market like Atlanta has two organized investment groups and that markets like Houston and K.C. currently don’t appear to be as organized as Atlanta in their attempt and desires to attract NHL hockey into their markets.

I believe KC, although it's a much smaller MSA than Atlanta, does have a lot of positives such as an NHL compliant arena (T-Mobile Arena) in downtown, an enthusiastic sports city, and a region that such a team can feed on (the Great Plains states of IA, KS, & NE, Southern states like OK & AR, as well as the home state of MO). Houston is basically the larger of the American metros, if we're talking markets.

In TN, the predators are the NHL team, and in NC, it's the Hurricanes, albeit, it's more of Raleigh's team than all of NC's & SC's, but that's another discussion, and let's not forget FL. I believe the NHL can foment more success in KC despite KC's size as a market and a metro area, as well as the location of the arena as opposed to the suburban proposal, which is not going to work in today's NHL regardless of how many snowbirds from Canada, the Northeast, and the Midwest Atlanta claims to attract, which I don't really believe should be the sole reason for attracting a team.

KC and Houston have the NHL compliant arenas and Atlanta doesn't (State Farm Arena can host an NHL team, but the debacle with Atlanta Spirit hastened the Thrashers' demise), it's that simple (although I would choose Quebec for future expansion or relocation just to give Canada 8 NHL teams, just to be fair to our northern neighbor).

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I also do like the prospects of a potential rivalries between a potential future Atlanta NHL team and existing teams in Nashville, Tampa Bay and South Florida.

Though at this point in time, a good location for the establishment of NHL hockey in the Atlanta market arguably appears to be in Atlanta’s aforementioned Northern Crescent suburbs because of both the noticeably large community of hockey enthusiasts there and because of the high median household incomes in the area that is centered on Alpharetta.

The North Atlanta suburbs and exurbs of the 21st Century are not the Detroit northern outer suburbs and exurbs of the late 20th Century.

Alpharetta (where there are two organized groups of investors attempting to attract an NHL franchise to the area) has proven to be no ordinary suburb or exurb as it has emerged as a very large hub of tech industry activity for the suburban Southeast.

Once again, KC and Houston have NHL compliant arenas and Atlanta doesn't, even if there are investors that are willing to build one in Alpharetta. It's all about now plus the enthusiasm of sports within the cities, and if we're going to gauge sports cities, KC comes first, followed by Houston, and Atlanta, while it does support the Braves and the Falcons, isn't a die hard sports city like Boston, Philadelphia, Detroit, and Chicago. However, if we're talking ice hockey, Quebec wins overall as far as enthusiasm (and they have already built an NHL arena called the Centre Videotron).

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Because of its status as a very large tech hub for the suburban Southeast (and because of the high-paying tech jobs that large tech hub generates in the Alpharetta area), Alpharetta has risen to dominate much of the economic activity that occurs in the North metro Atlanta area as evidenced by the nearly $134k median household income in the Alpharetta area… That’s along with the nearly $134k median household income in neighboring Johns Creek, the more than $136k median household income in neighboring Milton, the $121k median household income in nearby Forsyth County, and the $111k median household income in neighboring Roswell.

Add to the above economic statistics for the greater Alpharetta area the fact that the Alpharetta area (which has emerged as a major economic hub for Atlanta’s suburban and exurban Northern Crescent, North metro Atlanta, North Georgia and the suburban Southeastern U.S.) is home to a large and thriving community of hockey enthusiasts and one has the reasons why Alpharetta appears to be the main geographical target for the re-establishment of NHL hockey in the Atlanta market… That’s despite the Alpharetta area’s obvious decidedly suburban location and despite the understandable disapproval of many urban and inner-suburban metro Atlantans.

The reality is that, whether we may like it or not, Atlanta is a very Northside-heavy suburban and exurban dominated metropolitan area where the aforementioned Northside suburbs and exurbs (due to their large and expansive population, their extremely strong economy and their growing social and political dominance) have the social, economic and political pull that is needed to attract an NHL franchise to a decidedly outer-suburban location.

Atlanta’s Northern Crescent suburbs and exurbs have the social capital and the economic and political power to fiercely compete directly with (sometimes even blatantly one-up) the City of Atlanta proper and just as they used that power to pull the Braves from the City of Atlanta proper to Cobb County, Atlanta’s domineering Northern Crescent suburbs and exurbs are using their immense social/economic/political power and influence to attempt to attract an NHL team directly into a decidedly outer-suburban location in Alpharetta.

Economics can only go so deep. I'm already watching the Cowboys - Chargers game and it appears that there's more Cowboys fans at SoFi stadium than there are Chargers fans and LA is as robust as a local economy as any other American metro with the exception of NY. It can support the Rams, but there are also a lot of Raider, 49er, and even Cowboys fans residing in LA then there are Charger fans, who used to rule the SD sports scene but unceremoniously moved to LA.

When it comes to LA, it's always the Lakers that are first, followed by the Dodgers, then the Kings, and last comes the Rams since they've been out of LA for 20 years prior to coming back to LA in 2016. IMHO, SD needs to return to SD, as the Chargers belong to SD, not LA!!! The excuse of saying that GDP and per capita income makes a sports city doesn't mix. If that was the case, then Detroit, Philadelphia, and Cleveland wouldn't have their teams!