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Old 05-08-2011, 09:48 PM
 
Location: WI
59 posts, read 218,198 times
Reputation: 40

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I have been speculating this for a long time ,finally, I found my evidence.

As most of ppl might know, China has applied its One-kid policy since 1979. Under this policy, one couple can only have one kid, if they try to have the second one, the government will force the wife to have abortion or charge a fine.

Here comes the tricky part, what will the government do if they find out the couple already has a second baby (usually girls, under 1 yr old)?

let me tell you, they will confiscate the baby, then they will send the baby to orphanage. Most foreigners will adopt the child from the orphanage, btw, the adoption is not free, foster parents will pay the processing fee, usually around 30K dollars depending on which part of china the kid is from.

The income of selling baby will not go to other kids in orphanage, money will be shared among some officers.

No matter you believe or not:

check this out

use google translator



I know it is in chinese, but the report is all abt I just described.

I believe compassion is still in ppl's hearts, please think abt the parents are desperately looking for children.Please don't passively assist this evil conduct.
the Chinese won't appreciate this kind of adoption.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,058,385 times
Reputation: 47919
So tell me how many international adoptions have you been involved in? How many years have you spent trying to adopt anywhere.

I don't doubt that some children placed for adoption in China MIGHT have come from parents who did not want to relinquish their children, it is hardly the norm.

I have been involved in international adoption for 29 years and have 3 adopted children from Korea and Vietnam.
China does have a one baby policy but when this is broken the parents pay a heavy price. The women are many times encouraged to have abortions but nobody comes in and forcibly removes a child and takes it to an orphanage. Fines are levied, the children can be ostracized and not allowed to go to school and stiff fines are imposed.
However birth control is widely available in all but the most remote villages, abortions are free and safe and if an unwanted pregnancy goes to term, women are left alone in the delivery room with a pail of water and are expected to "take care of the situation" themselves.

There have been many countries which are no longer permitted to adopt children to USA because of all the horrible things involved, like under the table payments, child trafficking, etc. China is still a very valued source of healthy adoptable children and I think the Chines officials will do whatever they can to see this continues. Vietnam, Guatemala, Cambodia are just a few of countries shut down to USA adoptions. I doubt China will ever join that list.

Most PAPs (prospective adoptive parents) want to make sure the children they adopt are truly free and not ripped from the arms of parents. It takes over 18 months to 3 years to even get a referral of a Chinese child and that is after over a year or paperwork and government oversight. The Chinese have a pretty transparent process and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.
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Old 05-09-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: WI
59 posts, read 218,198 times
Reputation: 40


I am not involved in any international adoption, coz i don't wanna be any part of human trafficking even if it is out of my awareness.

I am not saying any adoption in china in illegal or dirty business, but there is chance the international adoption in china is a dirty business. BTW: I AM CHINESE.

There is a rumor spreading among the Chinese for a long long long period: orphanage is the place for human trafficking. Finally, someone who has balls dare to take a look at it

please check the link Sian media

and if you can, ask some chineses friend to translate that to you. It will show you how outraged chinese ppl are regarding our blood has been selling abroad. if all is transparent, where comes the parents' outcry? just check the website, and read through the threads posted by the poor parents.

does anybody adopted chinese orphan ever suspect how come the processing fee is so high? 30K dollars, it is 180 K in RMB. If the money all goes to build new facilities, buy good cloth for children, why there is no change after 3 or 4 years in orphanage.

By all means of "value resource", u mean monetary profitable?

I dont know anything abt other countries, so I am only talking abt things in China.

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Old 05-09-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,058,385 times
Reputation: 47919
I knew you were not American. It is obvious by the way you write. Not that it is bad, just not the way a native english speaking person would write. And I figured you were probably Chinese. That is fine. I'm sure there is alot of dismay by Chinese that they are not able to take care of their own. I understand.
But to put the onus of trafficking on all people who adopt from China is very unfair.

And lord knows there is always going to be profit mongers in the adoption business. It is rampant in this country as well as foreign countries. In Russia PAP are required to travel with thousands of dollars in cash for payoffs all along the way.

My own Vietnamese adoptions were a nightmare of being stuck in VN for 6 weeks for each adoption which was supposed to take only 10 days. It was a constant "We need more money" and of course I knew corruption was rampant. My own agency lost license and facilitator was deported.

But think about it. How do you think these children are in the system for adoption in the first place. Chinese are benefiting in many ways. First for not having to have society support these kids. Next Chinese facilators are the ones who identify and make adoptions possible. And they are probably doing it for money.
No it is not a perfect system. Far from it but there are many very poor people in China who cannot afford to raise another kid and they are happy to know their kids are being raised by loving, deserving parents.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Denver
4,564 posts, read 10,952,110 times
Reputation: 3947
I'm curious stilldoll - would rather the children be left in the orphanages then? My brother and sis-in-law adopted a girl who had been in the orphanage for 2 1/2 years. Thank goodness they did in my opinion. The thought that she could have spent more time there is horrible. The difference in her from then until now - a completely different child. She now has a chance at life - and a happy one at that.

I don't dispute that there may be corruption. But as no kudzu says - to blame that on the adopters is unfair. Be outraged at the Chinese government then - put your energy there. In the meantime, that goodness there are people willing to give these children hope.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,058,385 times
Reputation: 47919
jkcoop- congrats on your niece. And thanks for the excellent post. You are absolutely right. Put the blame - if somebody has to be blamed- right back on the Chinese government and adoption industry- not the folks who are trying to build their families with these precious children.
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Old 05-09-2011, 03:49 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,013,252 times
Reputation: 30721
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcoop View Post
I'm curious stilldoll - would rather the children be left in the orphanages then? My brother and sis-in-law adopted a girl who had been in the orphanage for 2 1/2 years. Thank goodness they did in my opinion. The thought that she could have spent more time there is horrible. The difference in her from then until now - a completely different child. She now has a chance at life - and a happy one at that.

I don't dispute that there may be corruption. But as no kudzu says - to blame that on the adopters is unfair. Be outraged at the Chinese government then - put your energy there. In the meantime, that goodness there are people willing to give these children hope.
I think stilldoll has a very valid point. It's a similar argument to "don't buy puppies from puppy mills." Sure, it's great rescue a puppy out of a puppy mill by buying it but the puppy mills exist due to the fact that people buy puppies from them.

I also recongize that this can be a touchy subject for nokudzu and others who have adopted from China. I'm sure it never occurred to them that they might have been contributing and helping perpetuate the lack of humanity in the country. Nothing can be done about what has already happened. There's no need to feel guilt or feel defensive.

But word does need to get out that adoptions from China can be supporting human trafficking. Anyone who has seen the documentaries about the human trafficking in China would realize that any child in an orphanage could have easily been kidnapped for the sheer purpose of making a profit on foreign adoptions. The country is incredibly corrupt.

Yes, we should hold the government accountable, but any foreigner who goes there knowing ahead of time that they are possibly adopting a child who was kidnapped is equally accountable. If there isn't a demand, there wouldn't be a market.

The more word gets out about this, hopefully less people will adopt from China; thereby, maybe the government will adopt ethical and moral policies to regulate the adoption industry there.

Last edited by Hopes; 05-09-2011 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Northern California
970 posts, read 2,212,700 times
Reputation: 1401
Chinese Hunger for Sons Fuels Boys’ Abductions - NYTimes.com

I remembered this article when it first came out so I dug it up again. It's a glimpse into child abductions in China and it actually mentions that many children who are taken are actually sold domestically (although some end up in orphanages that do international adoption).

It's sad that the government does very little about this issue. I don't doubt there are a lot of children at orphanages due to being abandoned or abused, and they need homes as much as any child. At the same time it's hard to know that some of the children may have families out there desperate to be reunited.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:19 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,013,252 times
Reputation: 30721
Quote:
Originally Posted by passwithoutatrace View Post
Chinese Hunger for Sons Fuels Boys’ Abductions - NYTimes.com

I remembered this article when it first came out so I dug it up again. It's a glimpse into child abductions in China and it actually mentions that many children who are taken are actually sold domestically (although some end up in orphanages that do international adoption).

It's sad that the government does very little about this issue. I don't doubt there are a lot of children at orphanages due to being abandoned or abused, and they need homes as much as any child. At the same time it's hard to know that some of the children may have families out there desperate to be reunited.
Interesting article. It's the girls who end up in orphanages. It even mentions American adoptions.

Quote:
Mr. Peng, who started an ad hoc group for parents of stolen children, said some of the girls were sold to orphanages. They are the lucky ones who often end up in the United States or Europe after adoptive parents pay fees to orphanages that average $5,000.
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Old 05-09-2011, 07:32 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,013,252 times
Reputation: 30721
This is super sad. It's becoming very clear that the girls in orphanages aren't necessarily abandoned.

They don't belong to YOU!: China’s Orphanages Profit in Buying-Selling Baby Girls for Foreign Adoption

The chances of inadvertently adopting a child who was stolen from loving parents is just too great IMO.

Quote:
The LA Times interviewed Duan Yuelin, recently released from prison for a conviction of human trafficking in babies. Duan’s entire family was involved in the baby selling ring. “They [orphanages] couldn’t get enough babies. The demand kept going up and up, and so did the prices,” said Duan. He admitted selling 85 baby girls to six state-run orphanages from 2001 to 2005. And that was just the tip of the iceberg, because numerous other baby selling rings were in operation, and presumably still are.
In bold above is what I meant by my "puppy mill" comparison. These children are being stolen BECAUSE there is a demand in foreign adoptions.

If the foreign demand wasn't there, orphanages wouldn't be buying stolen baby girls from human traffickers in China.
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