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Old 02-25-2020, 08:08 AM
 
Location: NJ
23,861 posts, read 33,533,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
If you and your spouse are planning to attempt to adopt domestically, please see below:

- US (domestic) infant adoption is declining to unsustainable levels. One national agency reports 135 placements in 2017 and only 77 in 2019. It's estimated that 2 million couples are chasing less than 18,000 adoptable infants.

- Age restrictions. Couples between the age of 25 to 35 are being somewhat successful with adoption. (50% failed adoption rate) Statements like this are red flags: "While our adoption agency doesn’t have an upper age limit, it is our prospective birthparents who choose their child’s adoptive family." Their contract will clearly state no guarantee of placement, all risk is assumed by you, not the agency, and you indemnify the agency for making mistakes or any other failures related to the adoption.

- No refunds. These clauses will prevent you from receiving any refunds of fees paid to the adoption agency. This include birth mother expenses and birth mother expenses that may or may not be compliant with various states laws. Please note that these contracts contain clauses that make you responsible for questionable birth mother expenses, not the agency. Many couples are placed into a situation where they can no longer continue their adoption attempts due to financial setbacks.
There needs to be some serious laws made that stop adoption agencies from profiting off of all the adoptions that don't happen. For starters, it shouldn't be the couples paying the potential birth mom's bills. It should be the adoption agency that assumes all of the risk, not the couples. They should not be allowed to take money from 20 people when they only have one baby they can possibly adopt out. It's not fair that these couples are being taken advantage of because there are no laws protecting them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
I'm coming back to comment on the topic of physical, mental, emotional difficulties with adopted children. Yes, I know that all of these can occur with birth children as well, but there are some issues that are specific to adoptees. There are three adopted grandchildren (my nieces/nephew) in my family, and all of them have these issues:

1. One niece is now 31 years old and was adopted shortly after birth (domestic adoption through public agency). She was full-term but on the small side. Otherwise, she appeared normal. She was a difficult baby and toddler and at about five years old, she was diagnosed with severe ADHD. As she grew older, she exhibited poor judgment, poor impulse control, little understanding of consequences, and the upshot is that she mostly likely has FAS (Fetal Alcohol Syndrome). Her issues have not improved with time. She finished high school in the special ed program and has had a number of low-skilled, minimum-wage jobs (like stocking in a warehouse), but cannot drive and will never be capable of fully independent living. Unfortunately, no one seemed to be aware of the FAS when she was born or adopted; it has been a difficult struggle for my brother and his wife and isn't going to just go away.

2. Another niece is 18 years old (private domestic adoption as a newborn). She is bright and seems well-adjusted. She did have some ongoing medical issues as a child that baffled her parents until they were able to contact her birth mother and found out that the mother had had the same issues, so they were apparently genetic. Fortunately, birth mom was able to relate that she had outgrown most of it and had had a certain treatment for the rest. This was really, really helpful. Niece now has some limited contact with her birth mom and everything seems to be going well.

3. Nephew is 19 (private domestic adoption). He has an attachment disorder despite the fact that he was adopted at birth; in fact my sister and her husband were in the delivery room and the newborn was handed straight to them. The attachment disorder was not helped by the fact that he is a different race from his adoptive parents and sister (who is the 18-year-old just mentioned). Not only that, but they live in a city where almost no one looks like him. My sister says that she never thought of him as looking "different" and didn't care what race he was, but she now wishes she had thought more about whether he would care. In his teen years he began to withdraw more and more from the family, barely graduated from high school, and just wanted to get away. My sister and her husband spent years and tons of money trying everything they could think of, all kinds of therapy etc. but to no avail. At age 18 he moved out and has little contact with them; it has been heartbreaking for them.

I am not trying to discourage anyone from adopting, but I would discourage the idea that the adopted child will fit right in and have no issues at all, or that any problems can be quickly solved with a little family therapy. I think more often than not, that isn't the case.
I feel for your nephew. There are many others like him that were placed with people they don't resemble, my friends daughter was one of them. She had black hair when her adopted parents were blond. They eventually had a bio daughter that was also blond which made my friends daughter feel even more like she didn't fit in. I wish they would put adoptees with people they physically resemble so that at least they will fit in more.
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Old 02-26-2020, 03:59 PM
 
1,065 posts, read 597,121 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
If you and your spouse are planning to attempt to adopt domestically, please see below:

- US (domestic) infant adoption is declining to unsustainable levels. One national agency reports 135 placements in 2017 and only 77 in 2019. It's estimated that 2 million couples are chasing less than 18,000 adoptable infants.

- Age restrictions. Couples between the age of 25 to 35 are being somewhat successful with adoption. (50% failed adoption rate) Statements like this are red flags: "While our adoption agency doesn’t have an upper age limit, it is our prospective birthparents who choose their child’s adoptive family." Their contract will clearly state no guarantee of placement, all risk is assumed by you, not the agency, and you indemnify the agency for making mistakes or any other failures related to the adoption.

- No refunds. These clauses will prevent you from receiving any refunds of fees paid to the adoption agency. This include birth mother expenses and birth mother expenses that may or may not be compliant with various states laws. Please note that these contracts contain clauses that make you responsible for questionable birth mother expenses, not the agency. Many couples are placed into a situation where they can no longer continue their adoption attempts due to financial setbacks.
Anyone who STILL identifies an expectant mother who hasn't given birth nor relinquished the infant, as a "birth mother", gets no sympathy for losing their money. And although 18,000 adoptable infants appears to be too many, it's more than likely not all 2 million couples are "chasing" or human shopping (domestic infant adoption), many actually know what adoption is for: children needing homes. They will parent in other ways. Thank you for giving everyone a heads up, to read their contracts, though. And never forget that a child and their future will always take precedence over "couples chasing" infants.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:37 PM
 
14,299 posts, read 11,681,163 times
Reputation: 39059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
Anyone who STILL identifies an expectant mother who hasn't given birth nor relinquished the infant, as a "birth mother", gets no sympathy for losing their money.
This reminded me of something I hadn't thought about for a long time. My cousin became pregnant at 17 (I was 9) and her parents sent her to live with us until the baby was born. The plan was for the baby to be adopted, and my parents helped her work with an adoption agency to pick a family. She did so and everything was settled as much as it could be before the baby was born. However, the baby was born with a serious chromosomal disorder (no way to know that ahead of time, in 1980) and lived only a month.

Many years later, shortly before she died of cancer, my cousin told me that she had always intended to keep the baby and was only pretending to go along with the adoption plan. It must have been devastating to the potential adoptive family when "their" baby died; I can only imagine how they would have felt if the baby had lived and my cousin had refused at the last minute to give her up. But apparently this happens quite frequently.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:45 PM
 
609 posts, read 263,834 times
Reputation: 1712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
Anyone who STILL identifies an expectant mother who hasn't given birth nor relinquished the infant, as a "birth mother", gets no sympathy for losing their money. And although 18,000 adoptable infants appears to be too many, it's more than likely not all 2 million couples are "chasing" or human shopping (domestic infant adoption), many actually know what adoption is for: children needing homes. They will parent in other ways. Thank you for giving everyone a heads up, to read their contracts, though. And never forget that a child and their future will always take precedence over "couples chasing" infants.
I think you are right. People need to stop thinking that "everyone should be able to adopt." It leads to human trafficking so that the supply can meet the demand.
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Old 02-27-2020, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,553 posts, read 10,611,270 times
Reputation: 36567
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot View Post
3. Nephew is 19 (private domestic adoption). He has an attachment disorder despite the fact that he was adopted at birth; in fact my sister and her husband were in the delivery room and the newborn was handed straight to them. The attachment disorder was not helped by the fact that he is a different race from his adoptive parents and sister (who is the 18-year-old just mentioned). Not only that, but they live in a city where almost no one looks like him. My sister says that she never thought of him as looking "different" and didn't care what race he was, but she now wishes she had thought more about whether he would care. In his teen years he began to withdraw more and more from the family, barely graduated from high school, and just wanted to get away. My sister and her husband spent years and tons of money trying everything they could think of, all kinds of therapy etc. but to no avail. At age 18 he moved out and has little contact with them; it has been heartbreaking for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
I feel for your nephew. There are many others like him that were placed with people they don't resemble, my friends daughter was one of them. She had black hair when her adopted parents were blond. They eventually had a bio daughter that was also blond which made my friends daughter feel even more like she didn't fit in. I wish they would put adoptees with people they physically resemble so that at least they will fit in more.
I feel a lot more for saibot's nephew's parents. Sounds like they did everything they could to support their son, yet he turned his back on them. Sure, I get it, it's awkward to be of a different race than your parents. And it's hard to be so noticeably different from your peers. So I'm not saying that having some angst isn't understandable. But that's no reason to put your concerned, loving parents out of your life.

As for requiring putting adoptees with people who look like them, if you apply that to race, that'll be bad news for black and Asian kids. A larger share of black and Asian kids are adopted, relative to their share of the overall population. So if you race-match, fewer of them will be adopted. And that supposes that people adopt in proportion to their racial share of the general population. My understanding is that white people adopt in greater numbers than their share of the population (I don't have stats on that), so this would make things even worse for minority children.

The data in the link is from 2007, but that's what I could find from a reputable source in a quick search.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/adoption...ity-and-gender
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Old 02-27-2020, 02:13 PM
 
14,299 posts, read 11,681,163 times
Reputation: 39059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I feel a lot more for saibot's nephew's parents. Sounds like they did everything they could to support their son, yet he turned his back on them. Sure, I get it, it's awkward to be of a different race than your parents. And it's hard to be so noticeably different from your peers. So I'm not saying that having some angst isn't understandable. But that's no reason to put your concerned, loving parents out of your life.

As for requiring putting adoptees with people who look like them, if you apply that to race, that'll be bad news for black and Asian kids. A larger share of black and Asian kids are adopted, relative to their share of the overall population. So if you race-match, fewer of them will be adopted. And that supposes that people adopt in proportion to their racial share of the general population. My understanding is that white people adopt in greater numbers than their share of the population (I don't have stats on that), so this would make things even worse for minority children.

The data in the link is from 2007, but that's what I could find from a reputable source in a quick search.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/report/adoption...ity-and-gender
There's an old book I really enjoyed called "The Family Nobody Wanted," published in 1954. The author, Helen Doss, and her husband couldn't have bio children and adopted a little blond boy who "looked just like them." When they wanted to adopt a second child, they found that they were considered lucky to have one already; there weren't enough white babies to go around. When they found that their agency had a mixed-race child available and offered to adopt him, the social worker refused to consider it because he looked nothing like the parents. She even suggested that they would treat him as lesser than their white son.

This couple realized that mixed-race kids would probably never be adopted. It was possible that a black family could show up to adopt a black child, but if the child was half Mexican and half Korean, the chances of ever finding a family that "matched" was pretty slim, especially in the 1940s. The couple ended up adopting a total 12 children, most of them mixed-race. The book, which was popular, was influential in encouraging people to adopt outside of their race.

So, it's kind of interesting to see how things have come full circle. I don't think there's much doubt that it's easier on everyone if adopted children physically resemble their parents. People like the author of this book probably underestimated how much it can affect some children, like my nephew, to appear not to "belong" in their family. On the other hand, it's got to be better to have a loving family that doesn't look like you than no family at all.
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Old 03-02-2020, 04:16 PM
 
322 posts, read 316,960 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrcollie View Post
I think you are right. People need to stop thinking that "everyone should be able to adopt." It leads to human trafficking so that the supply can meet the demand.
The number of childless couples is increasing in the US. The percentage of infertile couples has increased from ~20% to around ~36.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...the-us-by-age/

Fertility rates are declining

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/healt...udy/index.html

The posted number for domestic infant adoption:

Quote:
The number of infant adoptions in the US has increased very slightly from 18,078 in 2007 to 18,329 in 2014, the last year data is available. Domestic infant adoption comprises only .5% of all live births in the US and only 1.1% of births to single parents.

https://creatingafamily.org/adoption...t-length-time/
In 2018, 3,788,235 infants were born. 0.5% of those birth would be 18,941. Many dispute the 18,000 number. Many state that it is less than 9000. The problem is that the adoption industry is actively trying to hide good statistics about their industry. International adoption continue to drop (~4700 in 2019) Many think the 18k number is the combination of the domestic and international adoption numbers. Again, a marketing tactic by the adoption industry to sign up more couples.

There is also confusion about the number of childless couples seeking to adopt an infant. The largest number I've seen is ~3 million. But I think that number is too high. The best number I've seen is about ~1 million actively seeking to adopt a child. We simply don't track couples trying to adopt and the adoption industry does not want the number of couples unable to adopt being published. The National Council on Adoption states their are more than 5,000 adoption agencies in the US. If each agency has twenty couples waiting, it would appear that there is at least 100,000 home-study ready couples waiting to adopt. That does not include any couples working with consultants, facilitators, lawyer, or independent adopters. My best guess is that we have about ~10,000 viable adoption situation per year and about ~250,000 couples actively trying to adopt one of those babies. The ratio seems to me to be 25 to 1. I base that on the decrease in fertility in the US, the increase on childless couples in the US and decreasing number of adoption situations. Other agencies have place this ratio at 1 successful adoption per 36 couples. It really does not matter the exact number, there are just too many couples wanting to adopt.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Odessa, FL
2,218 posts, read 4,369,913 times
Reputation: 2942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
I feel for your nephew. There are many others like him that were placed with people they don't resemble, my friends daughter was one of them. She had black hair when her adopted parents were blond. They eventually had a bio daughter that was also blond which made my friends daughter feel even more like she didn't fit in. I wish they would put adoptees with people they physically resemble so that at least they will fit in more.
Well, I'm glad they don't. That would have prevented our adoption from happening, and I can't imagine what our life would be like without our child.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I feel a lot more for saibot's nephew's parents. Sounds like they did everything they could to support their son, yet he turned his back on them. Sure, I get it, it's awkward to be of a different race than your parents. And it's hard to be so noticeably different from your peers. So I'm not saying that having some angst isn't understandable. But that's no reason to put your concerned, loving parents out of your life.
It happens with other children too. Adoptees certainly don't have a monopoly on rejecting their parents. Although I'm sure race differences contributed to the young man's anxiety over fitting in, there's a good chance his troubles went much deeper than that.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:03 PM
 
1,065 posts, read 597,121 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by xy340 View Post
The number of childless couples is increasing in the US. The percentage of infertile couples has increased from ~20% to around ~36.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...the-us-by-age/

Fertility rates are declining

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/healt...udy/index.html

The posted number for domestic infant adoption:



In 2018, 3,788,235 infants were born. 0.5% of those birth would be 18,941. Many dispute the 18,000 number. Many state that it is less than 9000. The problem is that the adoption industry is actively trying to hide good statistics about their industry. International adoption continue to drop (~4700 in 2019) Many think the 18k number is the combination of the domestic and international adoption numbers. Again, a marketing tactic by the adoption industry to sign up more couples.

There is also confusion about the number of childless couples seeking to adopt an infant. The largest number I've seen is ~3 million. But I think that number is too high. The best number I've seen is about ~1 million actively seeking to adopt a child. We simply don't track couples trying to adopt and the adoption industry does not want the number of couples unable to adopt being published. The National Council on Adoption states their are more than 5,000 adoption agencies in the US. If each agency has twenty couples waiting, it would appear that there is at least 100,000 home-study ready couples waiting to adopt. That does not include any couples working with consultants, facilitators, lawyer, or independent adopters. My best guess is that we have about ~10,000 viable adoption situation per year and about ~250,000 couples actively trying to adopt one of those babies. The ratio seems to me to be 25 to 1. I base that on the decrease in fertility in the US, the increase on childless couples in the US and decreasing number of adoption situations. Other agencies have place this ratio at 1 successful adoption per 36 couples. It really does not matter the exact number, there are just too many couples wanting to adopt.
Adoption is for children needing homes. It has only been recent history that the definition has changed, directly tied to adoption agencies - so why join them with their flawed mantra and then provide irrelevant statistics?? Realize too, that whenever someone says they're "waiting", it means they want to gain from another family's loss. Even if it's in the child's best interest, prospective adopters shouldn't reflect themselves like opportunists with human lives. Also, "waiting" is bogus, since so many children need fostering. Best to accept the truth of adoption: it's for children needing homes. Then it'll be easier to nope out from the flawed mantra of adoption agencies.
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Old 05-08-2020, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
16,553 posts, read 10,611,270 times
Reputation: 36567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletwin View Post
And never forget that a child and their future will always take precedence over "couples chasing" infants.
In the context of adoption, what would it look like if a child's future was given precedence over the needs/wants/actions of would-be adoptive parents? Please be specific if possible. In what ways would the current adoption model be different?
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