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True. Another reason I think White people in the Pacific North West and California tend to have less friction with Blacks since they are so low in percentage of the over all population.
I think it has more o do with attitudes on the west coast being different. The west coast tends to attract and retain a lot of like minded people among many of the things shared are social issues.
I think it has more o do with attitudes on the west coast being different. The west coast tends to attract and retain a lot of like minded people among many of the things shared are social issues.
This is true. In general, Whites on the West Coast tend to be less tradition minded than Whites on the Eastern parts of the country. In California, Whites are pretty tolerant of other races as long as the person is similar to them in mindset.
I think it has more o do with attitudes on the west coast being different. The west coast tends to attract and retain a lot of like minded people among many of the things shared are social issues.
I think those attitudes are directly related to the number of minorities whites there encountered. If South Carolina and Mississippi had never been majority black states (where slave insurrections were a very real threat to whites), then I'd imagine attitudes towards blacks would have been very different. It's tough to have hard feelings against people you never see.
I think those attitudes are directly related to the number of minorities whites there encountered. If South Carolina and Mississippi had never been majority black states (where slave insurrections were a very real threat to whites), then I'd imagine attitudes towards blacks would have been very different. It's tough to have hard feelings against people you never see.
I keep hearing this from people who don't live out here so I'm going to correct you as well. Just as I was corrected about what I said about parts of the country I haven't lived in. Out here, you're more likely to get such attitudes in places where blacks are not seen that much as those places tend to contain whites with more traditional mindsets rather than progressive ones.
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Originally Posted by hipcat
This is true. In general, Whites on the West Coast tend to be less tradition minded than Whites on the Eastern parts of the country. In California, Whites are pretty tolerant of other races as long as the person is similar to them in mindset.
This post largely explains it. Not only have I seen the reactions from those who come here from back east (again for us that's anywhere east of the rockies), I can tell just by some of the reactions and assumptions in this thread by those who don't live here. I've admitted that I tend to see things regarding race relations with a west coast bias. I think it's time for those of you from the south and east to do the same thing.
I typically never made a big deal over titles. I'm called both Black and African-American, and I use both interchangeably, without even thinking about it.
Call me either one. I just know what you'd better NOT call me.
^ This 1000 times over.....! or as I tell people, I've been called worse.
I keep hearing this from people who don't live out here so I'm going to correct you as well. Just as I was corrected about what I said about parts of the country I haven't lived in. Out here, you're more likely to get such attitudes in places where blacks are not seen that much as those places tend to contain whites with more traditional mindsets rather than progressive ones.
This post largely explains it. Not only have I seen the reactions from those who come here from back east (again for us that's anywhere east of the rockies), I can tell just by some of the reactions and assumptions in this thread by those who don't live here. I've admitted that I tend to see things regarding race relations with a west coast bias. I think it's time for those of you from the south and east to do the same thing.
I don't know. It's easy to say whites out there just have different, more progressive attitude and it has nothing to do with the relative absence of African Americans but it's impossible to prove one way or the other.
I don't know what part of the West Coast you're from but let's say you're from one of the Sans, San Franscisco, San Diego or San Jose. Right now all three of those cities have less than 7% Black population.
Imagine those cities were to go to over 50% Black like Atlanta or one of the other "Chocolate Cities" of the East and South. Those Whites would then go from greatly outnumbering Blacks to being significantly out numbered by them.
Now because of the large income gap between Blacks and Whites (San Jose and esp. San Fran have huge gap between household incomes for Whites and Blacks. San Diego not as bad but it's overall income is lower) all of a sudden you would have a large black underclass in those cities where you really don't have that now. Then would come an increase in crime, drop in property values, and decline in schools. Add to all this you would have way more Blacks competing for jobs, political power and slots in public colleges and other schools. Inevitably far more cries of hiring discrimination or reverse discrimination in schools and on the job.
After 20 years of this situation (which isn't long compared to how long it's been going on in the East) Do you honestly think those Whites would still be the same in their attitudes towards Blacks?
I don't know. It's easy to say whites out there just have different, more progressive attitude and it has nothing to do with the relative absence of African Americans but it's impossible to prove one way or the other.
It's impossible to prove for you. When you live out here, it's abundantly obvious.
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I don't know what part of the West Coast you're from but let's say you're from one of the Sans, San Franscisco, San Diego or San Jose. Right now all three of those cities have less than 7% Black population.
I have lived everywhere on the west coast from Chula Vista to Seattle. I travel up and down the coast. SF has some racial issues. Check my past posts on previous threads and you'll see I've had no trouble admitting that. However if you are dare comparing any west coast city to one back east or down south, it proves your complete lack of knowledge on this region.
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Imagine those cities were to go to over 50% Black like Atlanta or one of the other "Chocolate Cities" of the East and South. Those Whites would then go from greatly outnumbering Blacks to being significantly out numbered by them.
Weak argument. One example is Oakland, California. Whites make up around 31 percent of the population. Blacks around 27 percent and Hispanics 25 or so. Asians most of the rest. Whites are outnumbered 69 percent to their 31. Oakland is no where near any city back east as far as race relations. Let's take any number of cities in Socal where whites are outnumbered by Mexicans by a wide margin. Again, no issues like what you might be used to. I know you really want to pain whites as hostile when they're outnumbered (and in many cases this can be true) however, the west coast IS NOT like it is back east. This isn't something you have to believe because it will remain true no matter what. There is a reason why west coast blacks have a different outlook. it's because we are from a different environment with different life experiences.
Now, I have admitted that my point of view comes from a west coast bias. Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, you might a southern bias? Try to help me understand why your point of view is somehow more valuable than mine.
It's impossible to prove for you. When you live out here, it's abundantly obvious.
I'm not saying White people out there aren't wonderfully accepting and good willed towards Blacks. What I'm saying is it is impossible to say that the same would still be as true if the demographic makeup out there were shook up. California is less than 8% Black, Washington 2.4% Black !?!, Oregon 1.4% wtf?
These numbers are all way below the national average and far far below what you see in Southern or most East Coast states.
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Originally Posted by Gentoo
I have lived everywhere on the west coast from Chula Vista to Seattle. I travel up and down the coast. SF has some racial issues. Check my past posts on previous threads and you'll see I've had no trouble admitting that. However if you are dare comparing any west coast city to one back east or down south, it proves your complete lack of knowledge on this region.
I never said they compare. In fact I'm saying demographically they don't compare. So therefore it's hard to say what the racial attitudes would be there if they did compare.
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Originally Posted by Gentoo
Weak argument. One example is Oakland, California. Whites make up around 31 percent of the population. Blacks around 27 percent and Hispanics 25 or so. Asians most of the rest. Whites are outnumbered 69 percent to their 31. Oakland is no where near any city back east as far as race relations. Let's take any number of cities in Socal where whites are outnumbered by Mexicans by a wide margin. Again, no issues like what you might be used to. .
Come on now. I have first cousins that lived in Richmond California for over a decade and an Aunt that managed an Apartment complex in Oakland for equally long. Yes they say racial relations are very different out there. But at the same time urban Blacks live in neighborhoods that are much more dangerous than anything I've seen here. The gang lifestyle out there is head and shoulders above what's here in it's prevalence and violence.
Places like Oakland and South Central LA are like flies in a huge milk bowl. And even there you have racial problems.
You also can't say that because they're outnumbered by Hispanics and Asians and get along with them means they would also get along with Blacks in that situation. I know for fact the Hispanics out there or much economically better off than Blacks so there's not as much class difference. Also, many of the Hispanics out there are white Hispanic. Asians ofcourse do economically well almost everywhere in the U.S.
And what issues do you think I might be used to? It's not like hillbillies in pickup trucks are chasing us around the suburbs. Whites and Blacks do get along pretty well even here in the South. I just don't pretend to think this is a colorblind world.
BTW The small rural town I grew up in in Georgia is 38% White, 37% Black, 25% Hispanic (Mexican and Cuban). There is also a small but growing Indian community and other Asians. Large parts of the huge suburban county of Gwinnett outside Atlanta have demographics similar to Norcross which is 16% Asian, 20% Black, 25 % White and 35% Hispanic. So it's not like we don't know anything about racial diversity down here.
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Originally Posted by Gentoo
I know you really want to pain whites as hostile when they're outnumbered (and in many cases this can be true) however, the west coast IS NOT like it is back east. This isn't something you have to believe because it will remain true no matter what. There is a reason why west coast blacks have a different outlook. it's because we are from a different environment with different life experiences.
Now, I have admitted that my point of view comes from a west coast bias. Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, you might a southern bias? Try to help me understand why your point of view is somehow more valuable than mine
Ofcourse I have a Southern and Midwestern bias. Those are the two places I've grown up and lived in. But tell me this. If there is so much racial equality out there why is it that the income gap between Blacks and Whites in major cities out there is just as big or in some cases larger than what exist in most big cities in the East?
Maybe Blacks and Whites are happy and content despite you're inequalities out there but here Blacks get a little antsy about being thrown under the bus and some (not all) whites get defensive when we get that way.
Last edited by Galounger; 11-28-2013 at 09:05 AM..
I'm not saying White people out there aren't wonderfully accepting and good willed towards Blacks. What I'm saying is it is impossible to say that the same would still be as true if the demographic makeup out there were shook up. California is less than 8% Black, Washington 2.4% Black !?!, Oregon 1.4% wtf?
These numbers are all way below the national average and far far below what you see in Southern or most East Coast states.
But what you are saying is, these areas aren't hostile towards blacks because of the low percentage. What I'm trying to impress upon you is, that out here the opposite holds true. those areas with very few if any blacks are the more hostile places where as those with higher numbers are not.
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Come on now. I have first cousins that lived in Richmond California for over a decade and an Aunt that managed an Apartment complex in Oakland for equally long. Yes they say racial relations are very different out there. But at the same time urban Blacks live in neighborhoods that are much more dangerous than anything I've seen here. The gang lifestyle out there is head and shoulders above what's here in it's prevalence and violence.
Interesting that you used these two cities as an example. Within the last year, I've lived in both, moved from Oakland to Richmond. Both cities have their share of issues, there aren't gangs in the bay Area among blacks like you might be thinking. true gangs are in Southern California. In Oakland and Richmond they are more "crews". the gangs are the Hispanic Nortenos and Surenos. I have a cousin who used to belong to a blood gang in San Diego so trust me, there is a huge difference.
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I know for fact the Hispanics out there or much economically better off than Blacks so there's not as much class difference.
The dangers of relying on numbers only. I live out here and will tell you that this isn't true except maybe in Los Angeles. LA does not represent CA or the west coast, in fact if anything, it tends to be the exception to most things.
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And what issues do you think I might be used to?
the racial issues of your area, just as I'm used to the one of my area.
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BTW The small rural town I grew up in in Georgia is 38% White, 37% Black, 25% Hispanic (Mexican and Cuban). There is also a small but growing Indian community and other Asians. Large parts of the huge suburban county of Gwinnett outside Atlanta have demographics similar to Norcross which is 16% Asian, 20% Black, 25 % White and 35% Hispanic. So it's not like we don't know anything about racial diversity down here.
I never said you didn't. I simply used Oakland as an example because it's the one I know best. Long Beach is also a great example but having never lived there, I didn't choose it. I certainly wouldn't choose a city where you are because...well...I don't live there. Did you really think I was implying that you don't have diversity?
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Ofcourse I have a Southern and Midwestern bias. Those are the two places I've grown up and lived in. But tell me this. If there is so much racial equality out there why is it that the income gap between Blacks and Whites in major cities out there is just as big or in some cases larger than what exist in most big cities in the East?
I said blacks and whites get along better. Blacks and whites are more in synch. I do not recall using the phrase "so much racial equality". I don't know why you would think I said that after I've already said what types of situations blacks can experience racism in. I also mentioned a while back about some of the racial issues that exist in places like San Francisco where blacks are very marginalized. I'm saying it again here so there is no confusion in the future. Again, I am trying to impress upon you why west coast blacks simply don't have the same outlook and beliefs. I've accepted that I know little about the south and Midwest but it seems you know equally little about the west coast but are too proud to admit you don't.
I don't think Black-Americans are that directly African.
I do believe we still have African sensibilities that we apply to various things. When I say we aren't that African but still have African sensibilities I mean in the sense that you can't find many direct African cultural things with Black-Americans but we approach certain things in an African way. Like we don't speak any African languages but African linguistics has influenced "black english". We don't practice African religions but we approach Christianity in an African way. We don't play music that's African but we approach music in general with some African sensibilities.
Well, yes and no. The things you're calling sensibilities, I'm calling Africanisms, yes we have more of that that direct cultural aspects obviously. Those things were beaten out of us, we lost that. However, there are a few direct things - linguistically we use many African words goober, banana, banjo there are many others. Head wraps, cornrows, dreadlocks, call and response, these things are direct links to Africa and not simply approaches or sensibilities I would argue.
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or as I tell people, I've been called worse.